Giving 50% of all future profits is quite harsh but the first 50% until 750bn+ and NATO membership actually quite a good deal for both sides.
US has already explicitly ruled out NATO membership for Ukraine. It’s not going to happen.
That’s because there’s no actual intention to protect Ukraine.
and there never has been
Certainly weird that Biden provided arms to Ukraine but prevented them from using them in Russian territory. It does seem like all the US has done is surrender Ukraine slowly.
There is nothing weird about the US not wanting to be directly at war with Russia actually. What’s weird is that people in the west wholeheartedly supported this proxy war in which the west was cynically using Ukraine to fight Russia.
As kissinger said, its . Much more lethal to be Americas friend than its enemy.
Exactly as in 2014, ukraine can get better deal from Russia than west. The only reason west will support ukraine is to funnel weapons to support terrorism against new russia.
Deal is aweful to accept for Ukraine, and only zelensky corruption could result in it.
@yogthos@lemmy.ml Can’t blame the US for wanting to get some value for all the treasure they’ve spent on the Ukraine project.
“Completely humiliate Russia by giving Ukraine our old stuff sitting on shelves that costs us basically nothing but the shipping to Europe; not risking any of our soldiers; restarting munitions production lines to refill our stock with new, even better weapons that fuels US job growth and innovation” should be enough already. The amount we’ve given Ukraine is less than just a few days cost of the Iraq and Afghanistan campaigns. It’s like the deal of the millennium. We should be sending Ukraine everything we can.
it’s enough to make you wonder if russia will ever stop it’s new war based economy; given the lessons that they’ve learned about their own military’s capabilities.
you’d also wonder if other people around the world would learn the same lesson that the ukrainians had to learned the hard way; that the united states created the nato clique using political violence like they did in latin america or the middle east and, just like latin america or the middle east, you’re nothing more than profit motive cannon fodder to the united states if you let us agitprop you into believing that you can join us.
@eldavi@lemmy.ml
Henry Kissinger once said: To be our enemy is bad, to be our friend is worse. I’m paraphrasing, but the gist is the same.
@yogthos@lemmy.ml @hydrashok@sh.itjust.works
@hydrashok@sh.itjust.works
What threat does Russia pose to us, and why should we care about Ukraine? It’s a border dispute and none of anyone’s business apart from the protagonists!
@yogthos@lemmy.ml
Are you just trying to bait me or are you actually interested in a conversation? I’m happy to discuss further, but right now I feel like your goal is just to rile me up for internet points.
@hydrashok@sh.itjust.works
No simply trying to know if you have facts on your side of the discussion. Why would I bait you to rile you up? That’s not my style, although I’ve experienced it personally, especially on Lemmy.world.
@yogthos@lemmy.ml
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That’s what the US said during WWII
Then they said, “Oh God. The Germans were supposed to defeat those commies but now the commies are on track to win the entire war themselves!”
So they jumped in, fought less than 20% of the Nazis, got to Berlin long after the Russians liberated it, and then claimed that the US are the anti-fascist heroes after dropping nukes on hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilians while in the middle of a negotiation with Japan.
Don’t forget the kicker: they justified it afterwards by saying they needed them to surrender unconditionally while the US (purposely) set conditions similar to those Japan was already agreeing to before the bombings. And of course kkkrakkkers still eat that up to this day.
Job growth and innovation ? Wow, didn’t think it was still possible to think something like that
Sadly, war fuels a lot of innovation, and it’s been that way for thousands of years. While I don’t like war and wish people could just live and let live, yes, we will need people to run the manufacturing lines, companies to mine and refine the raw materials, etc. Many of those lines were running minimally, if at all, because we already had the warehouse of old stuff. Now that we don’t (or at least have less), there’s room for more. And that in turn will provide the money for those companies to develop better weapons. Again, nothing really new. It’s a tale as old as time.
But fortunately we live in modern times… Sorry, I dont respect some old “life concepts”, it’s a bit “boomer” to continue saying good old bullshit…
Literally almost every technological advancement we have today is because someone was trying to figure out how to kill someone more efficiently. From the slingshot and bronze sword all the way up to nuclear weapons and stealth planes. It’s not a boomer concept at all (nor am I one), and it surely will not be limited to that generation. See also: drone warfare, using aviation tactics very similar to WW1. What is old is new again.
You say “we live in modern times” like that somehow precludes our primitive tendencies, but that’s just ignorance, in my opinion. It’s like a beauty pageant contestant wanting world peace. It is a wonderful aspirational goal, but it’s not exactly realistic, either.
Planes and nucler weapons are not advancements since there’s no civilian use counterpart anymore.
Sorry, it does not apply anymore.
Advancements are now electric mobility, renewables, satellites for civilian internet connection, cheap and higher education for all population, welfare, etc.
Nobody gives a duck about supersonic planes anymore, nor for big firecrackers .
Russian military production increases that seem to match entire west is a horrible consequence. 5% gdp military spending all around isnot what world needs.
A stronger instead of weaker Russia is weakening of west, and inflation from sanctions.
