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Or even better, a fork of Firefox which disable all that telemetry crap and bundle with uBlock Origin : LibreWolf.
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Is it as simple to use out of the box as Firefox or does it require some tinkering first?
No tinkering required, technically you could achieve the same result with regular Firefox + tinkering.
It’s as simple out of the box but with a greater focus on privacy with telemetry off and the pocket integration disabled.
Sounds great! Thanks for the info 🙂
Fr, people need to stop the lies that firefox itself is a privacy respecting browser, which it isnt- not since it was bought out years back.
LibreWolf and Mullvad are great examples of Firefox Forks that are ACTUALLY privacy focused browsers.
The new Mullvad browser is even better, and regularly maintained. But a little bit further down on the privacy end of the Spectrum and further from the useability end. Watch out for timezones, that one always gets me!
but hardened firefox 😏
Shut up, you godless furry
Godless furry bot: when
Stumbled over that last week. There is a company where I buy nearly all my computer stuff from, and I’m a customer for more than 20 years.
I wanted to order parts for a high-end PC, but simply could not add the motherboard to the shopping cart. Everything else was already in there. I called them, and they asked me if I used Firefox. And they told me in no uncertain terms that Firefox was dead and would no longer be supported for “safety and security reasons”, I should use Chrome or Edge instead.
If their site is too stupid to cope with Firefox, why the heck does it not tell me about this upfront, e.g. when I try to enter an item into the shopping cart?
I’ve had a few websites tell me to view their website in Chrome. I just leave, because no way am I putting any kind of personal data into a website run by such incompetent people.
I used to be a web developer. Back 8 years ago, you used to have to do a lot of special tricks to make your website look and function the same in all the browsers. Now, you really don’t. Unless you’re using some really obscure closed source codec or something, websites literally render and function properly without needing any browser specific code fixes.
There’s no excuse, unless you’re blocking older versions of every browser for security reasons, which is fine, because browsers update automatically these days, and it’s very rare for someone to be running a really old version.
Usually the thing about the webpage not working is just codeword for “we have not tested it and we won’t”. If you really need to access it, there are some extensions that can change your user agent so the page thinks you are in chromium.
This is the one I use.
Chameleon is another good plugin for this
I use an user agent switcher in those cases. Most of the time it works and I dont have to change the browser.
If their site is too stupid to use Firefox, i just use a different vendor or website
While you are basically right with that, just imagine the computer shop where all the IT professionals go to get their stuff. I’m a customer there for more than 20 years because they are good. If there was any good alternative, I might be tempted to change, but so far I have not heard of such a thing.
That sucks.i am not going to not use Firefox, fuck chrome
LOL I work in IT for a rather large company and we are supposed to use FF because it’s actually more secure and is more reliable than chromium browsers.
I work at home in the health field and the only browser they have us use for everything is chrome. It makes me laugh honestly.
What’s the source for that claim? To my understanding, Firefox first got sandboxed processes for sites in 2021, and only recently this year got features to sandbox the GPU processes as well - playing catch-up by many years to Chrome, and exposing attack vectors for sites to gain access to OS-level API’s to meanwhile. And to my understanding, neither are enabled by default on Firefox for Android, because of ongoing compatibility issues for years https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1610822
My take is that Firefox or its’ derivatives are better for privacy, while Chromium is better for security, due to the vastly greater development resources.
I had issues with my banking app and a few other sites that use my personal government issued 2 factor auth…
But only in firefox.
Privacy is like the least important reason I use Firefox. With Microsoft Edge and Opera being based on Chromium now there are just so many of them. With Chromium essentially becoming the de facto standard because everyone uses it that means Google can ignore web standards and just do whatever they want.
What are the important reasons?
Everything else I said, sorry if that wasn’t clear!
Essentially there are organizations like W3C and IEEE that define standards for how the internet works and how websites behave. All browsers follow these so everything works properly. Let’s say you have some idea you want to add to your browser you develop. You do it and tell everyone about it. You don’t have many users. Maybe a few sites do it but it isn’t really a problem that it doesn’t work on other browsers because so few people do it.
Chromium has a massive market share because so many browsers use it as their base. Even Opera and Microsoft Edge which historically have been alternatives to Google Chrome now use Chromium as their base. The danger is that Chromium has such a large user base that they are essentially what the standard is.
As a quick aside, Chromium is the name for the open source base of Google Chrome. Chrome itself is technically not open source. This jus thust in case you or other readers haven’t seen that word.
Imagine a world where everyone uses Chromium. Why would you (if you were in charge of Chromium) need to listen to what standards organizations say about how the web should work? You’re literally in charge of every browser! You can just add some new features or take some out and every website would have to comply because you (in this hypothetical) truly do control every single web browser on the planet. Their websites would not work otherwise.
Sure, out of the goodness of your heart you might behave and be a good steward but there will always be reasons for you to act against the standards that you don’t view as “bad” that other people might think are bad. I’m not saying all standards organizations are perfect and good or anything like that, but I believe I trust them more than Google.
Even if Google never does anything “bad” (naive thinking lol) avoiding the situation where they have that kind of power is a good thing.
To me that’s the most important reason to use a non-Chromium based browser. To avoid Chromium becoming the one true browser.
And just for some context, Google has done bad things before with regards to web standards and then having the de facto standard with Chrome. The recent changes to the extension API to neuter ad blocking being a prime example. And we don’t even have to speculate and sound like nutjobs. They’re a public company. They’ve said before that ad-blocking is one of the biggest threats to their ad revenue. Not that it feels tin foil hatty to suggest even if they hadn’t said it, but they actually have said it in reports.
organizations like W3C and IEEE that define standards for how the internet works and how websites behave
Too bad those organizations kept dragging their feet, writing standards by committee and making them unimplementable, pushing stuff like XHTML that nobody in their sane mind wanted… until the WHATWG called quits on them and focused on a working living standard: a reference free open source browser that anyone could just copy+paste to meet the standard.
Nowadays we call that “Chromium”.
Why do you believe Google would not be able to ignore the WHATWG the same way they could ignore other standards organizations if they controlled the entire browser market?
Well, for starters the WHATWG listens to Google, not the other way around. And yeah, they do “control” the entire “browser market”, or more precisely, the part they care about: how to show ads.
Then you’re just agreeing but saying it’s already happened.
That’s one way of seeing it.
I don’t agree with the W3C or IEEE defining the standards anymore, or with Chromium becoming a “de facto” standard; the whole point of creating the WHATWG was to explicitly ditch the W3C, make Chromium into the basis for a living standard… and everyone clapped (except for some die hards who didn’t get the memo).
That it allows Google to destroy the open internet by changing the standards until non-Chromium browsers can’t engage with the web.
Oh yeah I fully get that. I think that’s very important too. The reason why I asked is because I thought there was a nifty feature I wasn’t aware of.
That it allows Google to destroy the open internet by changing the standards until non-Chromium browsers can’t engage with the web.
Im glad the websites have a saying in this. If google also owns these all then we are TRULY fucked.
Unfortunately, no, they don’t. As Chromium gets more and more wide spread, Google is gaining the power to change the browser standards. Websites will have to comply. If your website suddenly “Breaks” because Google won’t allow Chromium load any pages without tracking tags, users will complain to you and not google.
Yeah tech illiteracy is a thing thats true. Once they realize that its their browser that breaks their shit they will just pick a different one. Thats what i mean with google owning all the websites.
I don’t think they will. I think corporations - Who make decisions the same way soulless psychopaths would - will bend.
Using Chromium supports the destruction of the open internet.
unpopular opinion: chromium is a genuinely good thing for everyone involved. Just because chrome gets all the bitches and can dictate stuff doesnt mean chromium will break the competitions will to have their own programmers make their own fork.
Good joke.
You know what happens if a customer complains your website doesn’t work in Chrome? A bug ticket is raised, goes to a developer and they fix the “bug” so it works again.
If the developer is good they’d also make sure their “fix” doesn’t break the website for Firefox and Safari. But there are plenty of developers who only test Chrome and call it a day.
Chrome is the default browser nowadays, if it doesn’t work in Chrome you have a problem. The developer might blame Google, but the user and management won’t care.
Thats fine. Because it means the websites are ok with what chrome is doing and it doesnt hurt them. No joke bro…
Firefox rules, people need to smarten up. Hell, Firefox on Android has an Adblock extension. Firefox is what’s up.
It’s also as fast, if not faster, than Chrome now.
Is Firefox for Android getting faster as expected? Last time, it seems very slow. I might switch back from Vivaldi if tests seem very well.
I recently switched to Firefox Nightly on Android and haven’t noticed it being any slower than the previous chromium browser I was using. I did opt to forgo the Dark Reader add-on for it though since that was slowing down webpage rendering a bit.
I recently switched from Opera to Firefox.
I was getting 59 FPS average in Opera, full bore 165 FPS / Hz in Firefox.
I didn’t -want- to switch but it’s objectively faster, especially on Linux.
does android firefox have a desktop mode for tablets / dex?
Wait it does? I need to go look into that.
There’s a work around for Firefox nightly that allows installation of any add-on too, eg sponsor block.
The fact that it needs a workaround is still bullshit.
websites not supporting firefox is the site’s fault, not the browser’s. firefox is not some niche browser. almost every website i have used is fine on firefox, and when it rarely doesnt work (usually bc i have a configured librewolf), i just open brave or whatever.
I just use chrome when it doesn’t work since it’s such a rare occurrence. There is no reason for me to use chrome on a daily basis.
I occasionally switch to chrome as a troubleshooting step when a website doesnt work, and it rarely is firefox the problem.
Im really confused by this sentiment. Ive been using Firefox since like 2007 and I was just a teenager who didn’t know any better.
Its been working fine for 16 years now.
Personally, I stopped using Firefox when mobile became my main computing device. When I had shitty phones and mobile browsers were newer, Chrome was much more stable for me than FF. I should try to break the habit and go back to FF now that they are both structurally sound, but by now I have years of stuff saved to and remembered by Chrome. It would be a hassle to switch, and somewhat more control of a portion of my data isn’t worth the trouble to me. I’m still gonna use Instagram for professional networking and personal posting, so I’m gonna be in packaged data anyway.
yeah having all your stuff saved in chrome would make it a hassle. sounds like a rainy day project haha
Even better idea. Wait until about 6pm, open maybe 7 beers and drink them over a four hour time frame. At 10pm, start mixing some cocktails (you can do this beforehand and just store them in the fridge), make sure you have plenty, as over the next 2 hours, you’ll need them.
Finally, at 12am, get yourself a nice spirit you enjoy, so maybe a good whisky, a good tequila, a good rum. Anything you like, and start mixing, 50ml alcohol, to about 250ml mixer is what I personally enjoy.
Once you hit 12, just get your things done. Whether it’s moving data over. Or just anything that needs to be done. Unless it involves leaving your house. As that may get messy.
This is what I always do when I know I need to get something done. And it hasn’t let me down yet.
Oh, and don’t forget your favourite music.
Damn you stuck with it during it’s trash years, too?
It wasn’t even acceptable until pretty recently, and it’s still missing a lot of QoL features that make me keep Vivaldi around (except on my Linux machines, those just run Fox cause Vivaldi isn’t available.)
What are you talking about? Firefox has always been very much acceptable for me. What qol features are you missing?
ive alwasy had a high end PC around so ive never had issues with it.
Chromium could be spying on you, as it communicates with google servers. You should use ungoogled-chromium, and hope they did a good job…
spoiler
or just use Firefox
Using ungoogled-chromium still contributes to Google’s browser engine monoculture.
That’s kind of awesome actually. I’ve been looking to replace brave for a while now while retaining the chromium feel.
Perhaps I’m missing something but I’ve been a Firefox user for years- at work and home. I have yet to find a website that misbehaves or under-performs. Mayyybe a few sites here and there a fractions of a second slower or have slightly less acceleration or something that I’m just not noticing?
Without Firefox and its ??forks?? like LibreWolf, the internet would be a total Chromium monopoly at this point, wouldn’t it? That would be bad…
I’ve been daily driving Firefox since 3 years ago, the only time it doesn’t load a site properly is when I lost internet connection mid-loading. Some people keep saying some sites don’t work with FF and yet none of them was able to give a single example.
The Oklahoma Natural Gas website sometimes won’t let me pay my bill if I’m using Firefox.
I actually had to install ungoogled-chromium to change my email on PayPal. No other browser would work, it was weird. That’s the only instance I can remember where I’ve had to try Chrome. Otherwise I FireFox has worked fine. Wonder what happened there.
I’ve used ha no issues with paypal on Firefox, odd
Some websites do poorly on it. However it’s rare and easy enough to just open it in a different browser. I’ve used Firefox for over 15 years and it’s not a serious issue. Usually bad government websites or shitty corporate webapps.
I’ve had some “Apply to Job” buttons on job sites not display in Firefox but show up fine in Chrome/Safari.
On what site/service is that?
I’ll let you know when I come across another, I’ve been applying a lot.
Cox cable had a button that wasn’t visible on ff, had to use edge.
I’m a die-hard Firefox user (in part because I’m a web developer and prefer the dev tools). But I have seen a couple of sites that only work with Chromium-based browsers. Both are owned by Microsoft, though, so I assume they’re breaking things on purpose to push Edge or something. There’s no significant features Firefox is missing. (Safari is the problem child for web developers now. They tend to be last to support new CSS/JS features.)
Maybe it’s because I use sidebery but Firefox is very Laggy for me in comparison to chrome, I use it Firefox because I don’t like google’s practices, and I like my sidebar, but I do miss the speed of chrome when you have several tabs open
However, my problems may also be due to windows, I’ve been having issues with my pc and I Def need an OS wipe
I’ve used Firefox as my main browser for a year or two now, and it definitely wastes the most battery life and uses the most RAM on my laptop. I’ve had some websites (job sites) not display “Apply to Job” buttons properly. My Yubikey wasn’t supported on many websites with Firefox (only Chrome/Safari) until recently. Chrome feels stagnate, though - I love Firefox’s auto-pause, PiP, bookmarks tagging and keyword searches.
Pretty sure Safari runs on Gecko as well, but still, “Chromium monopoly” is such a ridiculous idea.
It’s like saying cars have a “V shaped engine monopoly” or clothes have a “YKK zipper monopoly.” Does it exist? Yeah. Does it affect the actual lineup of available products and their differences? Not really.
Wait, people hate Firefox? Why??
Chrome defaultism, and so websites are usually made for Chrome, often disregarding testing on Firefox completely, and so they work a bit worse here and there
Also no Google connectivity
Huh, I haven’t really noticed any differences since making the switch. What do you mean by google connectivity?
Chrome browser will let you log in with your Google account which means things like passwords that are saved to your Google account will auto fill
Ohhhh, I didn’t even consider that being a deal breaker for some people, but I’m pretty sure Mozilla will let you transfer all your saved passwords from chrome.
I dragged my feet for a long time before switching from chrome to firefox a year or two ago for that exact reason. When I actually did switch it was practically seamless, I haven’t run in to any website that has been problematic on firefox but not on chrome. The only thing i dislike is that i haven’t found a way to have a custom newtab-page but still be able to directly input text to the navbar, so i always have to do ctrl+t -> ctrl-a.
By custom new tab what are you looking for? You can make the new tab display your home page, I think a blank page, and with extensions you can make it do almost anything with a new tab.
I’ve configured it so that when i open a new tab it will by default open the url to my calendar. It does not select the url in the navigation bar, so if i want to input my own url i first need to select the calendar-url so that my inputs deletes the existing text. I do think that the custom url new-tab is an extension though so that doesn’t really help my case (not at the computer so can’t check).
What sites have issues with Firefox? I’ve been using firefox exclusively since 06 besides trying chrome for 2009-2010 and never had any issues. Not saying they don’t exist but it seems like a very small amount that won’t function at all.
Anything containing WebGL and anything containing complex CSS/JS animations comes to mind, also Canvas (even though it rarely used, still lags like a motherfucker), Firefox really suffers in that regard, but they recently promised that they will fix it; and I remind you that because of hardware decoder legal ussues Firefox sucked very hard at 4K and 120 Hz YouTube on Linux for a long time too
There are others, commonly created because Firefox focuses on privacy, and so, for example, all internal website timers can only count by 0.1 seconds because anything less will open you to tracking vunerabilities, often settings sacrifice performance for data safety like this
A lot of websites will block your access if they detect firefox too
Because it is bad, bloated, bookmarks are horrible, end users have constant problems that aren’t even their fault. I literally am using Opera now to avoid Chromium because FF has gotten so bad
Opera is rebranded Chromium
If it really has to be a Chromium browser, Vivaldi will do the trick.
And if you REALLY take security seriously, LibreWolf is based on Firefox but without the annoying stuff from Mozilla attached to it.
Vivaldi a privacy respecting browser? It’s closed source and barely has any concern on the matter.
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I use firefox for obvious privacy reasons but also because I can customize the UI. Chromium’s interface is oversized, ugly, and locked down while on firefox I can change any aspect of it using my own CSS.
Also addons against ads which Google obviously wouldn’t allow on their crap browser.
How are you doing this? Firefox’s stock UI is even more oversize than Chrome’s and they are actively removing customization options to the UI.
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All of them are memory hungry, the point is how dynamic they are in their “hunger” and “excretion”.
Does the 34 and 20 represent the number of tabs? If so, this is not a fair comparison, what with FF having 50% more open. But even if that number doesn’t represent tabs, I am sure there can be websites that would put them much closer in performance.
Right now I have Chrome on my work machine. It has a 14 (again, not sure if those are active tabs or not) and it is eating 1.17 GB on my work machine. On my home FF (24) is eating 1.60 GB of RAM. FF is clearly using more RAM in each case, but it isn’t slowing my desktop down any more than Chrome is on my work machine. I’d like for it to improve, but rather use something other than Google’s tools on every single machine I use, I guess.
The number in parentheses is the number of processes that the application is performing. Win’s task manager groups these under the parent app so you don’t have to scroll through every “sub” in order to end a task. if you hit the “>” to the left of the app it will give you the expanded view and you will see the list.
Does the 34 and 20 represent the number of tabs?
Yes, more or less. I think some other extensions can take up processes too.
I actually have enough RAM and I’m glad that the RAM is being used to load all the stuff instead of the pagefile. It’s my fault that I’m not closing stuff, not the browser’s for not guessing what I’m going to re-load.
If you ask people, I think they’ll just say that their main browser is like that. And that’ll apply to all of them, so it’s a user problem.
I remember these talks from a very long time ago. Very long time, when Opera had its own engine and before. I think the gaps have shrunk a lot, especially now that Internet Exploder is gone.
I’ve been maining Firefox for over a year now and this has been the case for me as well - it’s such a resource hog. Which is fine, I’ve dealt with it, but I wish it didn’t use so much battery life.
For some reason, upload speeds to YouTube are atrocious. And if you read through the ticket about this issue, it’s not Google slowing it down artificially, but an actual Firefox issue. I have to resort to using Vivaldi as my dedicated upload browser.
That, and they have a weird drive to make their UI shittier and shittier. Introducing tons of whitespace, turning tabs into buttons, removing compact layout…
I have 15 extensions running on my 8GB work laptop and there is little to no difference from my 16GB PC battle station at home. And I have like 4 more apps run alongside 10 tabs of FF at work, way more than what I would ever open at home
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Of course your job would be even easier if there was only one engine left. Comparing it to what we had in the IE era though is completely bonkers.
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To name a big one: the CSS :has() pseudo-class.
How is this still not enabled by default?
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After the quantum update i switched to firefox, as now in performance it is almost on par with chrome or sometimes better.
I remember I switched to chrome way back when chrome was first becoming popular because of its speed compared to Firefox in like 2010 or something. Firefox caught up within a year and I have never missed Chrome for a second.
Oh, I was similar. When Chrome was new I liked it, but it seems to be vulnerable to get these weird superfluous add-ons that I may have acquired through malicious links. When I switched to Firefox I wasn’t as suseptible to malware, and the speed was just as good.
You mean it uses a bunch more of ram ?
For me Chrome uses more RAM, plus it’s usually some addon that slows down firefox more.
It’s Internet Explorer - Google edition.
Vanadium on my phone.
