My mum spoke to me shortly after it was announced that he’d died and I kinda was like “okay, feel bad for this children who had to witness it, can’t say I can sympathise with him though he was hardly a saint himself” and my mum was like “he spoke out against the woke people” over and over
I told her he literally said little kids dying in school shootings is worth it so people can have guns. he said empathy doesn’t exist and he doesn’t have empathy for kids being killed. He ridiculed disabled people in his circles. That he advocated for the genocide in Gaza by supporting Israel’s actions.
Then she was like “no no no you got it all wrong he was giving a speech when someone asked him if more people die from gang shootings or school shootings, then he was shot” even though the thing I was talking about was from 2023. He’s a man in a position of power and authority and influence over others, it’s a bit different from “just having a different opinion”.
She ended up getting pissed off at me and blanking me after that but I don’t care. I guess me caring more about kids dying than guns makes me officially “woke” now but so be it. I’ll stand by the fact I can’t find anything redeemable about this man or any reason to sympathise with him
Charlie Kirk was not a war criminal. Saying callous things about shooting victims and being a MAGA supporter should not be punished with death.
Fascists control all three branches of the United States federal government, as well as many state governments.
Today, there is one less fascist, and the remaining fascists are afraid. I’m not going to clutch my pearls about that, especially not for a guy who’s said that some gun deaths are acceptable as long as we’re protecting gun rights and that “empathy” is a “bad word.”
Do you think you can end terrorism by killing all the terrorists? Or win the war on drugs by killing all the drug dealers? What makes you think the fight against fascism is any different? We still live in a democratic society. The “fascists” were elected by the majority of the American people, so either the majority of politically active Americans (and Europeans) are fascists or you are being hyperbolic with your language. If elections are suspended, I think there is no alternative to political violence. Until that happens, we should work to unwind Trump and his political movement through nonviolent means.
Also, fascists aren’t scared they are angry. You think Trump is gonna get scared and roll back his policies? No, they are going to double down on everything. This perfectly fits his narrative that force is needed to take America back from the radical left.
Other fascist talking heads are cancelling appearances. Speaker of the House talking about how everyone is scared and heightened security. Yeah, they’ll double down, but they’re still scared.
I’m not being hyperbolic, but the majority of politically active Americans (I can’t speak for Europeans, but I expect them to be roughly the same) are easily duped.
Ah, so we’re in agreement about what needs to happen, we just disagree about where the line in the sand is.
e: Just to be clear, we’re on the same side, you and I. All efforts great and small.
Fair enough I guess, although keep in mind that if you think present day-America has crossed the Rubicon, you would also have said “welp democracy has failed we have to kill the political opposition” about 20 times throughout American history, and been wrong on all but 1 occasion.
We can make all the Constitutions and laws and social norms we want, but if enough people decide to ignore them and eliminate their opponents by any means necessary, those people will take power. All it takes is numbers, capability, and will.
The previously referenced federal government and state governments are ignoring those documents and norms already. They have the numbers, capability, and will to do so. They are already using violence to eliminate their opponents by disappearing people to foreign gulags without due process. SCOTUS has ruled that it’s fine to use the Family Guy Color Scale to arrest people.
The fact that America keeps coming back to this, with more vigor every time, suggests that if there had already been drastic change in the past, we wouldn’t be where we are today.
I still disagree that we are past the point of no return… we literally already voted Trump out of office once when he was pulling similar shit in his first term. In some ways he’s gone farther but, again, in a country with free and fair elections, elections are your recourse not political violence.
Explain to me how you think killing Kirk is a good thing for the country. Like, explain what will happen following his death that somehow leads to fascism being defeated in America.
At the very least, fascists are openly gerrymandering to put their thumb on the scale in order to keep Congress. (This is more of that ignoring foundational documents and norms, by the way.) I think the midterms are going to be “cancelled” because of some “emergency.” I’ll be happy if I’m wrong, but that’s the scenario I’m operating under. I understand that you prefer to wait until that prediction becomes reality, and I’m not going to deny you that. Reasonable people can disagree. But - we’re already moving past “free and fair elections,” whether you think there will be midterms or not.
What’s already happened - fascists being afraid - is a positive thing. It means that it doesn’t take that much for them to cower. It means that people who oppose them have the capability to stop them. It suggests that the number of people needed to accomplish that may be smaller than anyone thinks.
I’d also like to add here, about this conversation - I’m not “arguing”, strictly speaking. When I said that you and I were on the same side, all efforts great and small, I meant it. I appreciate this back and forth, because it allows me the opportunity to clarify my own thoughts for myself, as well as giving me a chance to be wrong and change my mind. Thank you.
Thank you for sharing your opinions respectfully - that’s why I’m here too. I try to challenge echo chambers whenever I see them when I have a differing opinion, and on Lemmy that usually positions me to the political right of the people I get into debates with (on Reddit its often the opposite). And I’ve had my mind changed on a few issues along the way- or at least had my views shifted a little.
The world needs more people with your mindset. Cheers.