Explanations/etymology also appreciated!
For Joe Shmoe, it means a very average or below average person. It’s a derivation of the practice of using “shm-” to dismiss something (eg “Practice shmactice. We’re already perfect”).
And “John Smith” is meant to be the most average name or person imaginable, so they have the “most common” (citation needed) first and last name as well.
spoiled all the fun :)
In Germany there is “Max Mustermann”, which basically translates to Max Template-man. It’s the default German name used for templates of official documents like passports and such.
Don’t forget Otto Normalverbraucher. Nobody cares about Otto Normalverbraucher.
In German there are also derogatory uses for the forenames “Kevin” and “Otto” for example. Often used to depict not well educated persons that have made extremely stupid decisions/choices.
I think this one is pretty confined to my region (southwestern USA) but we use Otto as the moniker of a generic stupid person too, but probably for a different reason: Otto is Oblivious to the Obvious
Don’t forget his wife, Erika Mustermann, geb. (née) Gabler. She’s usually the one used for passports these days. I think there’s a whole Mustermann family living in these templates.
Isn’t it Erika Musterfrau?
Sometimes, but I mostly see her name as Mustermann.
Or for historical context: “der Deutsche Michel” - “the German Michael “
In my country (Spanish speaking) we say “Fulano de tal” Fulano is kinda like a template name nobody really is named like that. “De tal” really means something like “from somewhere”.
We dont out it on the graves, but we use it as slang for situations where we need to refer to someone generic like “imagine a fulano de tal doing xxxxxxxxxxx”.
There are other names like Zutano, Mengano, etc.
Edit: My mom sometimes uses “Miguel Perez”. Those 2 are very common first and last names.
Does this came from arabic influence?
To refer someone without a name or generic name we sometime say Fulan bin Fulan meaning someone the son of someone
Wow! It most certainly came from that!
TIL, thanks! (brazilian here).
Just checked in a Brazilian Portuguese real made from trees dictionary, indeed comes from arabic (indicated by the “ár fulân”)
In US legal cases, “John Doe”, “Jane Roe”, and similar names are used for pseudonymized legal parties.
For instance, the plaintiff in the famous abortion case Roe v. Wade was one Norma McCorvey, identified as “Jane Roe”.
A group of unidentified people appearing as plaintiffs or defendants may be called a group of “Does”, from the name John Doe.
The words doe and roe both refer to deer, which are common wild animals in North America — and as wild animals, represent an arbitrary unspecified person. A doe is a female deer; and while “roe” can also mean fish eggs, roe deer is a common European species of deer.
Germany uses Max/Erika Mustermann – literally Sampleman. It’s used for example on official sample pictures of our IDs. Some authorities in erlin have startet to use the gender neutral name Manu Mustermann.
That’s the official version, but at least when I talk about some average dude it’s way too long and artificial, I don’t think the name Mustermann actually exists.
When I think of the most common name to use in casual conversation, I’d probably go for Müller (maybe Peter? Though the first name is probably heavily generation-dependent).
In older publication you may alse find references to “der deutsche Michel” (the german Michel, short for Michael) as a somewhat condescending reference to the average citizen who is very hesitant to adopt new concepts and tech and not always able or willing to understand complex concepts. Often used to remark that a product/idea will not have a chance on the market because “der deutsche Michel” doesn’t see the pointor would never pick it up.
Haven’t seen that in a while though, I guess Germans have become more open to new stuff :)
In the Netherlands there’s “Jan Modaal”, modaal (modal) referring the most commonly occurring value in or peak of a distribution. This name is used often when representing the experience of the most average Dutchman.
It’s especially often used in financial discussions and journalism, like “owning a house is getting further out of reach for Jan Modaal.”
In Belgium we mostly use Jan met de pet (“Jan with the cap”)
We also have the slur of “sjonnie en anita” when talking about lower class, anti social people, “sjonnie” being the man and “anita” the woman. Both are very common names in older generations, less common in younger generations.
Would Jan Lul be relevant to this discussion?
In Norway we have the stereotypical Norwegians “Ola Nordmann” and “Kari Nordmann”. Ola and Kari were quite common names a couple generations ago (not so common now). “Nordmann” literally translates to “Norwegian [person]”, but is also a not-too-uncommon last name.
We typically talk about them if we’re describing something or some situation and what the stereotypical Norwegian would do/think.
“Nordmann” is also a german word. It means “Norseman/Northman” or “Man from the north”.
In Vietnam, I think it’s just most names 😂. Anh Nguyen is probably a good example. Most Vietnamese have the last name Nguyen. The national naming conventions rival that of religious families in the west. Think, Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Anh, An, Thanh, and Minh. Women are the same, but named after things considered beautiful, Tuyet, Hong, Pham, Van.
Funny enough, many names aren’t always gendered, so I’ve met a decent amount of couples with the same first and last names. An Thi Nguyen, and An Van Nguyen is a couple that comes to mind. I dont have to worry about doxxing, since I bet that exists over 1000x here.
In the Philippines, it’s Juan and Maria dela Cruz, although those have fallen out of use due to the popularity of Western (aka US) culture. Interesting reading about every country’s own names for their everyman.
Some others in the Anglosphere:
Fred Bloggs - no idea where it’s from. Related to “bog” as in bog standard maybe?
Tom, Dick and Harry - is ages old. Even as far back as Shakespeare you can see the triplet evolving. “Tom, Dicke, and Francis” : Henry IV, Part I
I’ve always heard it as Joe Bloggs. The Bloggs bot is believed to be a derivation of bloke
We have the phrase ‘every Tom, Dick and Harry’ which is like that (UK)
If we’re talking about a generic person it’s usually Mr/s Smith or Mr/s Jones (near Wales)
Do you have “every man and his dog”? (Same meaning as every Tom Dick or Harry")
Yeah we do :)
In Israel it’s Plony Almony. Idk why. But it’s fun to say
In Norway we have “Ola Nordmann” and “Kari Nordmann”. Ola and Kari are pretty common and generic names. Nordmann literally means Norwegian, but can also be used as a last name.
In Finnish it’s Matti Meikäläinen for male and Maija Meikäläinen for woman. Matti Meikäläinen roughly translates to Matt Myself
So that might be Matty and Miya Meiikaalayinen. Dealing with diacritics from a language that has none is a bit tricky.
Am I even close?
In the UK it is Joe Bloggs
