I don’t think this is EEE, I think this is a chance for meta to dominate the narrative by drowning us out with algorithmically curated censorship, distractions, hatred, outrage etc. I would join threads if I want threads, I would be on Reddit if I want corporate influence.
The mastodon post for the same server admins admitting to allow Meta thanks @BrikoX and @Melco
Thanks lunar for articulating my central point better than I could.
Most of my primary content was within the comment section scattered so I’ll try to put it up here and edit more as i go. I was worried I’d butcher things so I avoided updating my post. Ignore the mess
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EEE - I don’t want to talk specifically about this. Many others are, and you can talk with them about it.
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Privacy - My views on privacy is that lemmy is already fully public and facebook merging into it probably wont reduce your lemmy privacy in any meaningful way. Ignoring lemmy, your privacy is already fully breached in ways I’m not going to explain here.
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People keep making blind claims that facebook/meta can’t use their algorithms to interact with us, so i will explain. For the record I know most of this effects mastodon directly, and not so much lemmy.
Threads will be able to control what gets minimised and maximised based on whatever secret algorithms they use. These end results are known to people that want to know, it’s how our parents and grandparents, became increasingly detached from reality. If facebook/meta wants to censor their users, they will, if they want to promote hate against LGBTQs then they will. Those users will then interact with our users, slowly shifting our conversations and the overall culture of lemmy into the same cesspool that is facebook.
Secondly, the content of threads will be selected by a relatively massive userbase which will drown out our content if we stay federated. Of course that content will be optimised by their algorithm, thus influencing fediverse content.
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Now onto the principle matter. FACEBOOK IS EVIL, like genocidal evil, a propaganda arm of the empire evil. They have a heavily proven track record. “Wait and see”? There is no need to ignore facebook/metas criminal record.
The admins here should have clearly stated their intent but have been deafeningly silent. People are asking for clarification or in my case, acting because of a clear lack of action.
Other posts are talking about this and I will assume you have been reading them.
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pjhenry is a troll that ignores what people actually say, he focuses on his intentional misunderstandings and straw-men, just stop feeding the troll guys, he only wants to fight over nothing. He only acts in bad faith.
While I agreed those who do not want federation with Threads should leave (me included), lemmy.world has not bent any knee. The admin is taking a wait and see approach, and willing to block if it turns out bad
Embrace, extend, extinguish. This is what we must prevent.
They will extinguish us by watering down our uniqueness and incorporate us into them regardless of if we are in a separate unique server like lemmy.world. In the end this instance will become intellectually homogenised with meta while foaming at the mouth with standard twitter/reddit/facebook level hate and outrage over dumb stuff.
The long-standing history of Meta’s flagrant unethical practices is enough reason to block them preemptively. I’ll certainly be leaving lemmy.world, ending my donations to them, and moving my community to another instance if they federate with Threads.
Not saying meta isn’t evil…. but the whole point of the fediverse is that anyone can start a server. Meta isn’t going to be able to track you any better just thru federation, anyone can already scrape the data. People are too quick to defederate everything
you are replying to the wrong thread, try reading my post. See how I don’t care about your arguments(I care about your comments, just not the arguments themselves) and only care they they will control the narrative.
No meant to post here… I see you didn’t call it out but privacy is a big reason people are worried about threads. Just posting my opinion. Feeds and algorithms can be adjusted if threads is drowning others out. I don’t know how good or bad threads will be for the fediverse but I don’t think you do either. I’m fine with servers taking a wait and see approach and with servers banning. I’m worried about people being very reactionary and servers banning other servers that take a wait and see approach. That is the thing imo that could really kill the fediverse
Also you are declaring lemmy.world is dead when afaik threads won’t even be federating with lemmy, they are just federating with mastodon
Privacy is fully violated regardless of what happens here, but I can understand people worrying about it. You will find that threads still leaks in and dominates us, remember they are a very large group compared to us. We will lose our soul in this exchange, although I agree that neither of us know how bad it is. Unfortunately I’ve been watching service after service get compromised so this isn’t new to me. I think they should all preemptively defederate with threads except for oddball servers which can if they want to, I think after we know how bad it is we should defederate with instances federated with threads.
Thank you for pointing out that this is so much worse than just EEE. Meta has a long history of social and political engineering, and deliberately creating a toxic environment that turned all of our parents and grandparents into deranged conspiracy theorists. They don’t just let hate thrive on their platform, they artificially inflate it in the name of engagement and profit.
I see no reason to assume they won’t do all of this again, and should they do it all again it’s going to impact the entire Fediverse. Even if you just stick to instances that block Meta, if you’re federating with instances that aren’t, the toxic environment Meta is likely to build will come back to you. If the majority of instances fail to block them, I can’t bear to stay here and watch what has become the internet’s most healthy and vibrant community rot from the inside.
I honestly don’t understand why this is even a debate. If even a fraction of the shit meta has pulled was done by a smaller Fediverse instance, we all wouldn’t hesitate to defederate from them.
And to those of you who justify Threads because Meta is somehow the lesser of two evils compared to Twitter, please remember that while Twitter is owned by a raging and incompetent manchild, Meta has eroded democracies and played a major role in a genocide. Don’t fucking support these murderers. Meta is more than happy to spread even more hatred and killing in the world if it boosts their profits.
Thank you so much for being the first to properly understand the threat I was trying to express. You said it so much better than I could at the time.
I think the reason we are debating is because there are already bots and bad actors working hard to change and forge opinion. I think this style of fediverse just died, but we are close to easily making a new better one.
If anyone does decide to leave lemmy.world, do not leave the lemmyverse. Join another lemmy instance or start your own instance. Lemmy is the future. Free, open source, federated link aggregator.
Yes. It’s nice to have choices.
I have multiple accounts and … So I am actually fine if Lemmy.world keeps Threads on. In fact I’d just be curious more than anything.
I can always just use my other account on another instance if things go bad.
What are you talking about?
mastodon.world, owned by the same people as lemmy.world, is not immediately defederating with threads.
How long does it take to make an announcement for the most important and simple decision one can make? The thing is, they announced quietly that they are allowing federation with threads. Interacting with threads goes against the spirit of us leaving the corporate cesspool of reddit and doesn’t even need a discussion.
and doesn’t even need a discussion.
The assumption that anti-corporate is the unanimous opinion of everyone here is false. I have and use apps from Meta. This is a topic that very much needs discussion.
I for one would appreciate federation with Meta. We can always defederate if Meta actually does something objectionable. But I see no reason to defederate before we actually know what federation with Meta looks like.
I agree in spirit, but Meta is a known bad actor and wrecking ball that ran actual psyops against its own users and their networks just to see if they could make people depressed. They also engage in extensive, worldwide election interference to upend democracies. They don’t get the benefit of the doubt anymore.
This article lays out all the problems with the wait and see approach. We’ve been here before, unfortunately, and it only has a happy ending for the huge corporations looking to end us.
Edit: for those looking to get away from Mastodon’s main instances, give Fosstodon a look. Meta approached its admin with NDAs just like they did with Ruud, but refused it and published the email for openness. Here it is, by the way.
You do realise the average person here now is from exiting reddit because they did bog standard corporate things? If they aren’t aware they dislike the corporate part of reddit and like the lemmy part then… well…
The “average” person does not even know what an API is or cares. I doubt they even know what’s going on. You sure do like to make grand sweeping statements that have no basis in fact.
Never said a thing about APIs… you shouldn’t make such grand sweeping statements.
As for the average person here, plenty of statistics say that corporate reddit shenanigans and the influx of users happened at the same time, this is simple fact. They got booted off, or chose to come here because of the corporate side of reddit. This is about as simple as simple can be Aldursil. Are you a bot? or just… ya know
Wow, now insulting. The last thing people do when they run out of ideas. Welcome to my block list.
I’d like to disagree with OP, but a lot of us did join after Reddit fucked up.
Ok, imagine if Reddit had been part of the fediverse in the way Threads is planning to be. Then, when spez needed to fuck himself, we could have migrated more easily to another instance, without losing access to Reddit.
I’m not sure about you, but that sounds like an upside to me.
- Metas algorithmically curated feed happens only for threads users
- In few hours threads got much more users that lemmy has - meta do us in any ways - we are small group of people which will not consume meta ads/style
- What special Lemmy.world did in this context?
Lemmy.world isn’t preemptively defederating with Threads.
- itl be forced onto us by being federated, and if some block, the others that dont will be controlled by those posts and indirectly influence the rest of us.
we are small group of people which will not consume meta ads/style
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The quote is what i mean, we wont want them so why do we want them?
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lemmy.world has been silent to us inside lemmy, and their mastodon instance said they are federating and will “see” if they should based on how meta behaves. As others have said, its like letting an arsonist into your house unsupervised hoping it wont happen again.
edit: because i get doubles of the same comment from two accounts I’ll answer in here.
The threads algorithm will maximise likes on things they wish maximised and minimise attention on things they want ignored etc. What threads likes most will spread most, through their app and through peoples actions, then that spread will reach federated and then indirectly federated sources. The important part is they dwarf our community size and tend to be very homogenised so for gain that i cant see, we lose our soul as a community. We may as well just delete here and make threads accounts. I’m here because the people are more unique and interesting, not as a generic chat room or social media account. Once we become what most of us don’t want, then why bother?
I lost you. algorithmic “feed” is created by Threads for Threads users. As long as you personally do not subscribe to Threads “communitues” (or whatever it will be) you do not see there. Without Threads you can find an unpleasant context in Lemmy as well, if you search for it just or browse “all”. If you want instance admin decide for your what you allowed to see and protect you from everything what they thing is not nice - there are few.
As much as I preemptively created an account on another server (as I prefer admins to have a decisive stance in regards to Meta and similar corporations), it’d be good to wait for lemmy.world admins official message on it before telling everyone to leave.
But if they do “officially” bend the knee, yeah, it’s time to leave if you want to avoid Meta.
All this talk of Meta is histrionics at this point until we find out if they are going to federate. Wait and see then you can decide what to do.
I’ve edited the post to show the 4 day old toot I was referencing. We already know they will federate and we already know meta and generic big multinational corps are evil. We have all the evidence we need.
You were abusive with what you said, and just because you were too lazy to fact check doesn’t mean I’m lying or the fact it isn’t known
Mate, if the word “histrionics” is abusive, wait till you see the rest of the internet.
Man… I just got here.
Oh please, spare us the silly drama.
Consider reading this brief explanation of the issues by one of the ActivityPub authors…
https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2023/07/what-to-know-about-threads/
If personal attacks are the only response you can give, then they’re clearly right and you’re clearly wrong.
“drama”? that faq thing doesn’t change the fact that we don’t respect meta and don’t want to share a platform with them
and it’s no surprise the authors of the software are supportive of its mass adoption, that doesn’t mean I have to tolerate a shitty company
we don’t respect meta and don’t want to share a platform with them
I guess a big part of the dilemma is, though we mightn’t respect meta, some of us respect some of the people who use their services - even like some of them - and would like to be in the loop with them without using meta’s services ourselves directly
I’m on a Lemmy instance that’s preemptively defederated, and I respect that, but I might think about creating an account on another instance so I can have interoperability … That said, I’ve done pretty well almost entirely ignoring Facebook and Instagram so far, so maybe I just won’t care enough
It’s all getting a bit Judean People’s Front around here. I know there’s a generally leftist userbase, but do we have to do this?
That’s less about defederating with Meta. Meta are the Romans. It’s about people defederating with anyone who federates with Meta.
I’m not surprised, but disappointed. And I’m even tired to talk about it. It’s just so fucking dumb.
Do the fosstodon people have a Lemmy instance?
fosstodon has the same stance as lemmy.world. I don’t know if they have a lemmy.
Wait, did I read something wrong… I thought they were like “we don’t want to talk to Meta at all”.
Edit: oh yes I see.
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Is there any way to move a community? I created !vans@lemmy.world but I will not be hosting this community on this instance if it federates with Threads. Also going to stop donating to Lemmy.world if this is the route they will take.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with a wait-and-see approach.
We know the history of Meta. We ignore the history to wait and see.
Given the relative scales, it’s best to put protection in place, then wait and see.
If Threads is a positive place, we open up and nothing is lost.
If Threads is a(nother) cesspit of hate and bots, then we have protected ourselves from it.
I’ll wait and see if Facebook is even gonna end up doing federation correctly. Maybe they wont.
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