Wat?

I’m not here to defend Hitler or jk Rowling. Yea the joke is malformed

The implications are that hitler drew up the sketches. You know… The whole failed artist thing causing him to join the field of genocide tyrant instead.

Um… yea? It’s not supposed to? Let’s ignore how dangerous and foolish it would be to allow llm’s admin control of a system. The thing that prevents it from doing that is well, the llm has no mechanism to do that. The best it could do is ask you to open a command line and give you some code to put in. Its kinda like asking siri to preheat your oven. It didn’t have access to your ovens system.

You COULD get a digital only stove, and the llm could be changed to give it to reach out side itself, but its not there yet, and with how much siri miss interprets things, there would be a lot more fires

It was more then you deserved

So that’s the thing, it’s a lie of omission. The full line is ‘The civil war was fought over the states rights… to own slaves”. We were taught that north were not freeing slaves out of a moral standpoint, but to ensure monetary dominion over the south. Anyway, it’s carefully curated propaganda and white washing of history that is apparently still happening to this day.

That the civil war was fought over states rights.

We did WHAT?!

I feel that stupid is too easy an answer, especially when the stupid was manufactured, or at the very least the cure was withheld. There is a deeper part of human nature at play, greed is close but its more nuanced, it’s featured in the “tragedy of the commons” and against the tide even those who would act righteously in their own life would be replaced and utterly destroyed by the clawing hands of everyone else.

Every science fiction story has been a failed attempt at using our creativeness to warm us of our doom. Which This failure itself was foretold in mythology such as with Cassandra’s tears. We know our fate and we seem powerless to stop it, for some reason…

I mean you can try sure. But i am convinced that boycotts do not work. Part of the consequence of allowing duopolies, or even monopolies is there is no getting away from it. And the stock market has never been more hostile to the individual investor… unless you mean everyone should empty their 401k?

I made my level of understanding kinda open at the start. And you say it’s not, open source most say it is, and they explained why, and when i checked all their points were true, and o tried to understand as best i could. The bottom line is that the reason for the disagreement is you say the training data and the weights together are an inseparable part of the whole and if any part of that is not open then the project as a whole is not open. I don’t see how that tracks when the weights are open, and both it and the training data can be removed and switched to something else. But i have come to believe the response would just boil down to you can’t separate it. There really is no where else to go at this point.

Snowden is in exile because he proved that this is not the case. My understanding is they are not supposed to do that with domestic, but data don’t care about that and agencies spying on citizens knew that, and snatched it all up once they left us soils, up in the air, bounced overseas, all justification to spy without a warrant. Nothing has changed

Other then the experts, whom ever they are, the rest have no clue

The LLM is a machine that when simplified down takes two inputs. A data set, and weight variables. These two inputs are not the focus of the software, as long as the structure is valid, the machine will give an output. The input is not the machine, and the machines source code is open source. The machine IS what is revolutionary about this LLM. Its not being praised because its weights are fine tuned, it didn’t sink Nvidia’s stock price by 700 billion because it has extra special training data. Its special because of its optimizations, and its novel method of using two halves to bounce ideas back and forth and to value its answers. Its the methodology of its function. And that is given to you open to see its source code

So like an emulator. Or at least the PS2 ones when you had to dump your bios from your machine (or snatch someone else’s).

But that’s my point! The data set is interchangeable. So Its not what makes the deepseek, THE deepseek LLM . But without the data set it would be functionally useless. And there would be no way possible to satisfy your requirement for data set openness. You said there is some line in the sand somewhere where you might be satisfied with some amount of the data, but your argument states that granularity must be absolute in order to justify calling it open source. You demand an impossible unnecessary standard that is not held to other open source projects.

Are you talking source as in source code? Or are you talking about source as in the data the llm uses? Because the source code is available. The weights are not the output, they are a function. The LLM response is The output

but the weights can be changed, the input data can be changed. And if they are… it’s still deepseek and if you can change them they are not what makes deepseek; deepseek.

I use boot.dev it has an AI. But they changed the data set to only cover relevant topics, and changed its weights, and gave it tone instruction. And wile it plays a character, it’s still chatgpt.

So i still don’t see your issue with deepseek, because just like an emulator, everything is open source, with the exception of the data. The end result is dependent on the ROM put in to it, you can always make your own ROM, if you had the tools, and the end result followed the expected format. And if the ROM was removed the emulator is still the emulator.

So if deep seek removed its data set, would you then consider deepseek open source?

Source build dependency… so you don’t have a problem with the LLM at all! You have a problem with the data collection process or the pre-training! So an emulator can’t be open source if the methodology on how the developers discovered how to read Nintendo ROM’s was not disclosed? Or which games were dissected in order to reverse engineer that info? I don’t consider that a prerequisite to say an emulator is open

So if i say… remove the data set from deepseek what remains would be considered open source by you?

Would it? Not sure how that would be a better analogy. The argument is that it’s nearly all open… but it still does not count because the data set before it’s manipulated by the LLM (in my analogy the data set the emulator is using would be a Nintendo ROM) is not open. A data set that if provided would be so massive, it would render the point of tokenization pointless and be completely unusable by literally ANYONE without multiple data centers redlining for WEEKS. Under that standard of scrutiny not only could there never be an LLM that would qualify, but projects that are considered open source would not be. Thus making the distinction meaningless.

An emulator without a ROM mounted is still an emulator, even if not usable.