I think a lot of people here don’t understand the danger of this fully and dismiss it with “Just use Firefox, problem solved”.
Unfortunately, once this becomes widely available, that is once Chrome ships it, websites will start to use it.
Maybe Amazon will just not sell to you anymore when you’re browsing with Firefox?
Maybe YouTube wont serve any videos if you’re using Linux?
Your bank will certainly implement this and only allow Windows 11 with Edge or some shit like that.
Once this is implemented, we will all suffer, even if we’re using better alternatives right now.Your bank will certainly implement this
My brother in Christ, it was 2020 before my bank supported passwords longer than 8 characters. We have 30 or 40 years before we need to worry about the banks.
Some banks are still running windows 98 internally, admitedly so long as said system isnt connected to the internet it should be fine.
Lol, not to mention Cobalt and other horrors that are lurking in Legacy systems no one has looked at in 50 years.
I’m thinking mainframe terminals, where the character has to be in the right place on the screen in order to store something in RAM.
Even worse, how many systems are still using punch cards? How often do those cards need to be replaced?
You may think so but hackers have managed to access data on air gapped computers
Win 98
This isn’t true, this can’t be true and I refuse to believe it.
I sincerely hope that your local ATM never crashes and you never have to see the windows xp logo.
Have you ever rooted an android phone?
The google SafteyNet Attestation is the precursor to browser DRM. It’s essentially phone DRM.
There are many banks that have apps that require you to pass at least the basic level attestation, if not the CTS profile matching that fails the moment you modify any system level resources, even the bootloader
luckily you can force disable CTS so it falls back on the basic level, for most apps at least. You will never have access to Google or Samsung pay though, as it actually knows your phone model should support CTS and will autofail if it no longer reports that it does.
Alongside that apps like Pokemon GO and Netflix also require at least basic attestation to function - demonstrating the DRM and anticheat capabilities of such a system.
https://github.com/Magisk-Modules-Repo/MagiskHidePropsConf
This can help you pass CTS. It worked for me. Funny thing is, I don’t even remember which app I did it for. Whatever it was, I ended up not using it after all the trouble. As for my banking apps, they only care about root, so Magisk’s denylist does the job.
Yes, US banks.
Banks in europe are much more up to date with tech.
They have APIs to sink transactions with external providers like nordigen API.
They have 2FA that is linked to your national identity card which is chipped
Nationally used apps that are universal 2FA linked to national IDs that banks, medical, and government services all tap into
Everything is contactless payment nowadays, the US just recently started contactless cards
Inter-bank transfers without external apps like venmo
There are MANY problems with EU people getting their banks to work on a rooted phone.
They will absolutely implement DRM if someone sells the bullshit to them under the illusion of “safety.”
Hell, the US had handwritten “vaccine cards” for covid while European nations even had open source user spinoffs on nationally funded apps linked to national IDs to manage COVID vaccination and testing passes.
I wonder if that would be a valid anti trust violition ?
If we lived in a sane country all 4 major tech companies would have already been brought to court over this in like, 2016. (Microsoft for the second time…)
To be fair to America, I don’t think there are any sane countries left. Finland had an actual neo-Nazi as minister and while it didn’t last longer than Truss or even half of it, the party that is ministerial party is still there with similar ideas. They just had forethought to not write 14/88 in an old electoral ad. We are tied for first place still in the least corrupt countries and 5th in most democratic countries.
It’s IE6 all over again.
Technically the idea is that if Chrome has barely any market share (will never happen, but let’s pretend), they cannot implement this as it will anger and lock too many users out of day to day life.
However…
With Google Search and YouTube being by far the most 2 popular websites in the world, I think they still could. The vast majority of people would never give those up and if they’re told to use another program to access them, they absolutely will, meaning in an ideal world with a browser competition, they can easily destroy it immediately.
Google search has become very bad and is easily replaced by basically any search engine. YouTube is still unparalleled though.
Did Firefox even say that they would not implement it as well? Are there any informations on that?
They said they would not: https://github.com/mozilla/standards-positions/issues/852
Doesn’t that also mean they lose customers or possible transactions which could have made them money?
Would apple just roll over on this? Or would they fight to make sure safari is also an option to freely use the internet (or at least severely limiting apples ability to do something similar) And websites that depend on ads, the number of Firefox and safari users have to be greater than the number of users who use ad-blockers. So wouldn’t it negatively affect ad income on websites if they implemented it and cut out all non-chromium browsers?
I think apple would figure out some very creative ways to fuck it’s customers, some more.
For the millionth time, Stallman was right.
Yep, you send me html, my browser can interpret it any way that I want it to. If I want to ignore all of the image and script tags, I can. I don’t need Chrome or even Chromium. As Stallman says, you should know what is running on your system.
We need to go back to html and css. Using an ad blocker and noscript literally breaks webpages. I just want to read the article! You know the content ppl actually come for
But how is all the bloat going to get to you then? HTML with some images is equally functional and loads in a fraction of the time, because it is actually efficient. Nobody could want that could they?
How the fuck are people using the internet without an adblocker?
It is pracitcally impossible to differentiate content from ads. And i was just talking about all the bloat without the ads. Thank you for sharing this, i never thought it’d be this bad.
It’s such a bizarre situation. Either you heavily limit Javascript and basically destroy all web apps or you embrace it and get laughably slow websites with walls of ads that beg you to log in to actually view the page. Like if you look into it, it’s genuinely shocking how much software is a web browser running JS under the hood.
I can see legitimate uses for java script, like popping out a menu. But it seriously needs its capabilities restricted.
You can pop out menus with CSS.
needs its capabilities restricted
This is a bad take. How are you gonna do that? Force ECMA to scrap all the functionality deemed ‘bad’? Wave a magic tech wand? At the end of the day JS is a tool, and like any tool it can be abused for nefarious purposes. The issue is that advertisers abuse this tool, and the sites they pay to be shown on allow it. Not because insert scripting language exists.
It just occured to me that I wonder how a text browser addresses all this
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/07/25/voters-progressive-trump-harvard-youth-poll-gop/
Just tried it on browsor
Stop using chrome. Yes brave is chrome
@nicman24 firefox is not chromium…
Gecko, the underlying engine behind Firefox, is an entirely different code base from Chromium
Firefox doesn’t use chromium. It uses Gecko, which is an entirely separate codebase.
But that’s also not private as has been claimed as a reason to go FF. The only reason to use FF is only to not use chrome. Not for all the reasons that chrome is bad.
Tor Browser, LibreWolf, and Arkenfox JS are the most secure and private browsers you can get and they’re all based on Firefox. If they’re not private enough for you, I don’t know what is
Just use Firefox, Mozilla already put their stance forward as opposing this garbage
Firefox is faster than chrome anyway nowadays.
Nowadays? I think you mean since always :)
I get your sentiment, but chrome 1 was crazy fast and seemed barely functional coming from a world of toolbars for most people.
At the time people were like “I can’t use this, there’s only this search bar”
That may be true on desktop. But, unfortunately, the mobile app is way behind chromium. From being unresponsive, to outright buggy. It’s not a good experince. It’s been 2 years since the rewrite but it’s not getting much better or even close to fixing most of its issue. Meaning, using firefox on android is a handicap on yourself.
Gonna need some statistics on this, because your anecdotal experience is not at all like mine. FF is totally useable on Android.
Ditto, I barely noticed the switch.
The only inconvenience is that it doesn’t prefill my credit card details, which is probably a good thing from both a security and hip pocket angle anyway
I have used Firefox on many smartphones since 2014. It’s not an anecdotal experience of mine. It’s the difference between chromium based browsers on android being more efficient compared to Firefox. Here’s the github issue which was open from 2020, now moved to Bugzilla: https://github.com/mozilla-mobile/fenix/issues/12731#event-8105829420
If this did not happen it would not have been kept open for so long. Just search tab reload in closed issues you will people still complaining while the repo was accessible.
Bugzilla issue from 2 years ago: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1752594
The migrated issue from github: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1807364
Thanks for the concrete reply! I assume if this bug is affecting me it’s just not enough of an issue to be noticable on my hardware (Pixel 5)
That has not been my experience with FF on mobile and my phone is a few years old
Ive used FF on my android phone for years and had no noteworthy issues the entire time, not sure what youre on about
I’m talking about the tab reload issue. Check my reply to other comment. Where I link issues. Basically you cannot fill forms, multi task or do stuff without the tab reloading on you. This issue has been ongoing since 2020. I changed phones but this issue did not change once. Permalink to that comment: https://lemmy.ml/comment/2013238
Ive never had any issue like that to be honest, and I have been using FF literally daily for years. Most of my social circle are yucky apple product users so I haven’t even heard of this issue until now. Im sorry you and other people have it because tbh FF is basically perfect, at least for what I need it for
Thanks for acknowledging the issue. I’m on android which could make some difference. I install Firefox with ublock origin as good adblocking solution for others. Most do not appear to notice this issue so it’s not a problem. Hopefully, it’s fixed for the ones experiencing this issue.
Honestly I see smartphones as a downgrade to computers in general. If I want something done digitally, I’ll always prefer doing it on a PC.
As someone who has used Firefox on Android for 9 years plus… “lol, wut?!”
It was bad, 7 years ago, and has been solid for at least 4 years.
Yeah, to be honest the FF Android experience just can’t match Chromium.
I don’t really NEED to, so I’m not switching from Firefox anytime soon, but I wish they’d at least fix recently closed tabs reappearing every time I reopen the darned thing…
DRM is stupid because it interferes with paying customers and isn’t effective. If there’s a will there’s a way
I guess we have to get a subscription on top of our monthly internet bill to use the internet.
deleted by creator
Not one-for-one, but the BBC actually wanted to put a tax on broadband bills in response to the resentment towards the TV License.
*loicense
It’s also stupid because it’s encryption but Bob and Eve are the same person.
One more time if anyone says that capitalism breeds innovation we need to show them this ¡!
restricted capitalism does that. regular capitalism makes monopoly.
Does it though? Universities seem to be doing the heavily lifting innovation-wise.
Well yes, but universities certainly do not stop Nestlé from selling their own products so cheap that local businesses (which refused to get bought up by Nestlé) go bankrupt because they can not sell their only product with a loss.
I was responding to the first half “restricted capitalism does that”
This ain’t capitalism, this is going back to a rent based economy.
Aka: Techno Feudalism
Let me just point you to this:
https://doctorow.medium.com/autoenshittification-cb851c2574fb
Paywall!
This is innovation though, an internet wide DRM would be quite an impressive technical feat. It’s just not innovation built to benefit you and me, it’s built to benefit Google’s true customers, advertisers
Yeah… They find innovative ways to milk us of our money and attention and annoy the heck out of everyone
Oh almost like if in capitalism they didn’t say that oligarchys are a problem. What we needed is to send these giants down.
That would prove difficult considering money rules, you can make people do you bidding, make them disappear and suffer little to no consequences.
So what we needed is a decent anti-monopoly, anti-oligarchy force.
Just like when the us gov dismantled AT&T into thousands of smaller different cervices and that created things like mobile rputhers and etc.
Soo the, Google at this point is putting down more inovatjon that he is bringing it to the table.
Problem is not capitalism, it’s all that power centered in the same place. Almost like a dictatorship.
Well that was when anti trust laws actually worked ! Alphabet , meta etc are literally sucking americans poor. Still we dont see anything !
Tbh as a Climat activist who grew up surrounded by deniers …yhe… the feeling of hopeless is strong. But hey I have been seeing slow and gradual change, when things are getting bad.
At least in your scenario (at the moment) when they go down we might be able to reverse the worse consequences. Unlike climate where we probably just fucked.
Our planet has had good and bad climates , but humans have fucked it intentionally and there seems to be nor reluctance or remorse in the rich to fuck it even more , it will probably end in jeopardising human life , mostly the poor will suffer and die , but i am quite sure that planet will find ways to recover ! Once the humans are gone !
Oh for fuck sake, yes when I say planet I mean the delicate ecosystem that supports all life. See even better I still get downvoated by shit heads
The problem isn’t capitalism, it’s just the system that allows power to be centralized through market forces and used to bribe regulatory bodies. Oh wait…
Shit man I would love to hear how you would stop power concentration in communism or any other form of government…
I mean, it’s all innovation in some way… Just all anti-consumer.
Google in 2004: don’t be evil Google in 2023: turns into Dr. Evil
Something-something die as a hero or become the villain.
Now we can scream that they’re truly evil
Like, seriously, went through the last 10 years spending a good chunk of my day on Twitter and Reddit using Chrome, and suddenly I’m on Lemmy/Mastodon on Firefox.
Firefox’s been better since Quantum.
It feels like much much faster than Chrome, not gonna lie.
And ram efficient
This is my exact change. They want to shittify things I’ll switch or just stop using it. I’m at my breaking point.
Eerily feels like I wrote that comment.
Seriously… my oldest account on Reddit was 12 years old. I’ve been through so many changes that turned me off, but the API stuff was the last blow, and the CEO’s love for Elon Musk just sealed the deal.
Add me to the list with a side of furiously searching for security and privacy of cloud storage services and figuring out which Linux I want to use. I’m shaking my head at how complacent I got with my services. I always do my due diligence when starting to use anything but I somehow forgot to keep up in the past couple of years.
Do you miss anything?
I won’t lie that it’s been an adjustment. Old habits die hard. Reddit is the one that I am more certainly done with. No one is on Mastodon yet so I do browse Twitter a little bit to get updates on the stuff I like, but don’t interact there anymore.
I miss a lot of my niche content
Well, best thing to counter that is to be the change you want to see. Start the community for the niche you miss the most/know the most about. Post something daily for two weeks + do a call for mods, and before you know you’ll have at least some activity. I (helped) to bootstrap !openstreetmap@lemmy.ml this way, and the community has about 1 top level post per day on average now. Not a lot, but a good start.
Ah yes, 2023. The year I wore a pirate hat and touched more grass. Soon they’ll be bribing the govt to make going outside illegal.
Soon they’ll be bribing the govt to make going outside illegal.
That was 2020
“What’s internet? It it like Googlenet but worse?”
-Some kid in the future
Reddit don’t have IPA on tap anymore?
I don’t want their IPA, I want my Ruby Beer
Plus the paid streaming services adding ads back in and they are all the SAME fucking ads?
🎶 Do what you want because a pirate is a free, you are a pirate! 🎶
Ngl I am so done with streaming services asking for device specs and blocking things on my devices that I pirate stuff anyway !
🎶Yar yar figle di fi🎶
I just dusted off my pirate flag, the rising costs of everything has made it impossible for me to do the legal thing.
I’ll start my journey sailing the vast sees upcoming weekend.
Does anyone else think that maybe this may cause a shift back to times before internet
Honestly, reddits API change was an awful thing to do but my phone usage has plummeted since then. I’ve been trying Lemmy but it’s not been an easy 1:1 replacement and I find myself not engaging or feeling so invested in conversations and content as much.
That works in my favor, though, because I really have been spending way too much time looking at screens anyway.
Wait, Google’s doing what now?
They want to implement a “feature” so websites only load for you, if your browser, OS and hardware are deemed “trustworthy” aka you load every ad and malware that the website wants to shove down your throat.
Oh God… I think I’m going to be sick. It’s too easy to see how you could weaponize this against dissenters.
Don’t like something about our product? Have fun being banned from the internet!
Not even dissenters, just people in general. That’s why they’re likening it to DRM. Run something nonstandard on your system (ie Linux)? Get with the program. It’s a continuation of “you don’t own anything, use it how we want you to use it or don’t use it at all.”
Isnt this already a thing with many webapps already , I had to dual boot windows coz some uni websites refused to run detecting linux on my system !
That’s just fucked. I guess I’m lucky that my Uni doesn’t really give a shit. During the pandemic, they were even chill enough for us to use alternative software here and there, since we weren’t allowed to come in and use the PCs on site.
Fuck this goes deeper than I thought
From what I gathered even if u have installed a browser on ur phone that is not signed by play store or app store google may block it , so fennec / bromium and other f droid products google may decide to tag as malicious !
There are times I build my own browser and OS probably in future ( basically building open souce code , sometimes removing ssignatures and enhancements) , I wonder if I will be able to use stuff then !
Or you could just use Firefox? Mozilla has stated that it opposes this stuff.
Honestly this is just depressing. And a little scary ?
Corporate greed is taking new heights and the things we took for granted are being taken away. It is all so dystopic…
Yeet.
