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Botanically, there’s no such thing as a vegetable.
That’s a culinary term, which seems to cover some fruits, some plant roots, some plant stems, some plant leaves, and some plant flowers.While culinary fruits are the other botanical fruits, and a few flowers (figs are weird)
The legal decision is important for a slew of reasons including taxation, SNAP benefits, etc. The decision was less about science and more about the reality of how tomatoes are used in our society.
… Cool? I was more pointing out the issues with the assumptions the meme was making
So was I.
Now I get why some (a ?) states declared pizza a veggie or something like that? Like if vegetable is a culinary term it makes sense you could classify pizza as a vegetable. But like, why the fuck is law declaring what anything is culinary?
To get around legal requirements to include vegetables in school lunches
Speculating here, but taxes are one reason.
Almost all the rules about what counts as wine, beer, whiskey, etc. comes from some country making definitions for tax purposes. Often from hundreds of years ago.
I’ve also heard of cannabinoid soft drinks available in states that have (compared to states that legalized it) pretty strict cannabis laws in place. All because of some loopholes (I’ve read about the farmer bills and all but my terminology is rusty). That’s so strange.
And suddenly its all OK. At least legally. I think its sad. At the moment, eating healthy is becoming harder and harder for the first time in my life. I get why so many Americans eat the way they do, financially. And ethics and morals don’t mean anything if its choosing between eating or not. Just so sad.
These laws don’t seem to help the average struggling American at all. With an president promoting his love for cheeseburgers lol.
I guess I feel blessed to eat fresh non processed food 6 times a week.
The loopholes on the farm bill are so big that I don’t know why we’re debating legalization at this point.
To meet the 2018 farm bill requirements, your thing needs to have <0.3% delta-9 THC by weight. This opened up the delta-8 market–less potent but you can just add more of it–but that was only the start of exploring the new legal territory this opened up.
10mg of THC delta-9 is considered a good sized dose in edible products. A standard can of soda is about 225 grams. So do the math: 0.01g / 225g = 0.004%. Close to two orders of magnitude under the farm bill limit, and a lot of THC seltzers come in bigger cans than that. You can sell that in every state that hasn’t specifically banned it otherwise.
It gets even better. To get 10mg of THC delta-9, a gummy only needs to be about 3g to make the 0.3% limit. Not that big at all.
That mostly leaves smoking/vaping as the only methods that don’t have an easy loophole.
Just legalize it already. This is stupid.
Because those culinary definitions are used for other laws, e.g. laws about what food schools can give to children.
Consider that in German (and probably a ton of other languages too), there are just two different words for the botanical and the culinary definition of fruit, so you can have namespacing built in to the language
This is dumb, botanically tomatoes are a fruit doesn’t preclude them being vegetables because vegetable isn’t a botanical term at all. Tomatoes are fairly sweet but they have more culinarily in common with vegetables. Nutritionally I’m not positive but it’s a separate issue.
Regardless the supreme court decision was regarding tariffs/imports/customs which makes sense to classify it simply by the way in which people consume it. People eat tomatoes as a vegetable, just like we eat zucchini and cucumber as vegetables despite them all also being fruit.
Obviously fruit/vegetable should be broken down into whether or not you can just make a sauce with it.
Tomatoes: easily broken0 down into a sauce Apples: guess what? saucable
Zucchini: not easily sauced. Cucumber: don’t even think about it!
Hilarious but we’re gonna end up with a few weird things like jackfruit and bananas becoming vegetables. I’d also add that apples are only sauceable through maceration which really puts them into the same camp as squash like zucchini, and any root really like carrots or celeriac.
Now I really want to try making a zucchini-cucumbersauce
Pretty sure it’s so giving ketchup to school kids constitutes a serving of vegetables.
No that was 90 years later as school budgets were cut further and further until they were using things like pickle relish as a required vegetable. Our public school system is an embarrassment.
Vegetables do not exist. Well, they exist as a culinary thing. There’s just no scientific/botanical definition of what makes something a vegetable.
I appreciate the message, but I find this presentation style to be unbearable, like a shitty clickbait version of a TED talk: fast cuts with exaggerated audience reactions, playing hide the ball with the actual information being presented. And then they took what I imagine is a normal studio production designed for normal TV screens and cropped it into vertical video, published on Youtube as a short. Gross.
Tbf it’s a comedy show, it being informative is mostly an accident. This one is rare for being factual and not about why we should nuke the moon or which cartoon characters are invited to the cookout or something like that.
What about Stephen Hawking?
Stephen Hawking is a pile of ash, not a vegetable.
What about him?
Being smug over the meanings of words that aren’t ever actually used in a consistent way is even more American.
Um actually, Strawberries are not a berry, it’s a Gameboy, not a Nintendo, and I lick toads. Can you go to the bathroom?
The only thing similar that I have experienced in Europe is the protected food name law, e.g. Champagne and Parmesan, but that’s an EU cultural protectionism law that the US doesn’t actually follow.
No worries, “being smug over the meanings of words that aren’t ever actually used in a consistent way” is done over here in Europe as well. People have the exact same conversations you list as examples. I would even go so far and say that this is true for the whole world and throughout time, a human condition. I would also think that it really isn’t about the words/language, but rather about having control over the conversation and power over others.
No! How dare! My unique lived experience is unique to only me and my arbitrary group! You can’t be the same!
What next? You gonna tell me the “wait 5 minutes” joke about weather basically applies everywhere?
The wait 5 minutes joke never seems to hold up in my region. Usually if it changes in the middle of the day, it’s not changing back. Usually it changes at night though.
I still get angry about teachers replying with " I don’t know if you can go to the toilet" Fucking power play for sure. I was already shy about asking to use the toilet.
Yep, I really hate those moments, too. My father used to do this all the time just to get one up on me :/
If I had a nickel for every lemmy post and comment being hostile over another countries language/use of language, I’d be a rich fucker indeed
I don’t see anyone being hostile, do you?
Not you, to be clear. Posts where people decide to pick fights over aluminum vs aluminium, that sorta thing.
OK, got it
All the time lol
I don’t see much difference between the Parmesan case and Apple sueing against a vaguely similiar looking logo.
Wasn’t it the Beatles sueing Apple and not the other way around?
How so? You can have a cheese that’s a molecular perfect replica of a Parmesan and have no legal issues. You only have problems is you call it Parmesan without following the requirements.
To be honest, it seems like the complete opposite issue.
i thought the problem would be if they called it parmigiano reggiano, but calling it parmesan was okay
Both are branding issues?
No, they aren’t.
I don’t understand. A game boy is a Nintendo.
How them toads taste?
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From Mr. Lovenstein whose website unfortunately doesn’t seem to work, except to redirect you to Meta-owned socials. Ugh.
Aren’t strawberries nuts?
Yeah man, they’re completely nuts!
I’m going to take this as an opportunity to point out that bees are a type of fish in California.
You weren’t kidding!
California enforces many wildlife regulations. CESA, or the California Endangered Species Act, is designed to keep animal and plant life from extinction. The law covers any threatened “bird, mammal, fish, amphibian, reptile, or plant.”
Insects weren’t mentioned in the specific act’s wording. However, a separate California regulation legally defines fish as “a wild fish, mollusk, crustacean, invertebrate, amphibian, or part, spawn, or ovum of any of those animals.”
So, are bees actually fish? Yes, because all invertebrates are according to California law. The broad definition of fish allows activists to fight for insect survival.
The California Department of Fish and Wildlife has clarified that “It was not believed necessary to include the term invertebrate in the original legislation because ‘fish’ is defined in the Fish and Game Code to include ‘invertebrates’…”Talk about by-the-book!
Good.
There are two big grocery chains where I live. One puts the olives in the canned vegetable aisle, the other puts them in the canned fruit aisle. I keep forgetting which does which and end up in the wrong aisle every time.
Treat yourself next time you find them to a jar of kalamatas.
The fruit classification seems insane to me. Maybe I’m unfamiliar with dishes that use it as a sweet?
Does that store have a separate aisle with canned beans, or is it just one big canned-things aisle?
Botanically, fruits don’t have to be sweet. It’s anything that’s a seed carrier of some kind. Vegetables are other plant parts that don’t contain seeds, more or less. It. Culinary usage takes a different approach, hence the different aisles.
Not sure about beans, I don’t usually buy canned beans.
Fun fact, the vatican classifies capybaras as fish
For lent-related purposes, I presume? Same as beavers.
Squirrels too.
TIL the vatican approves of squirrel stew on fridays.
Either we’re all fish, whales and dolphins are fish, or nothing is fish. All three positions are perfectly justifiable depending on your critieria, so take your pick.
Not unique because EU also classifies tomatoes as vegetables.
Is the tomato a fruit or a vegetable?
The classification of fruit and vegetables can be based
on various approaches — botanical, agronomical,
culinary — thus resulting in different definitions. For
example, the tomato is botanically a fruit, but it is
commonly considered a vegetable from both the
agronomical and the culinary points of view.
The facts and figures presented in this briefing follow
Eurostat’s definitions based on the farm management
and agronomical practices, according to which the
term ‘fresh vegetable’ refers to annual (or, rarely,
biennial) horticultural crops, and the term ‘fruit’ refers
to perennial crops.
Following this approach, tomatoes are included in the
main statistical aggregate of vegetables, as well as
melons, water melons and strawberries, which are
commonly considered and consumed as fruit.https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/etudes/BRIE/2019/635563/EPRS_BRI(2019)635563_EN.pdf
Yes, fruit is a botanical category, but vegetable is not.
All fruits are vegetables, but not a vegetables are fruit.
Vegetable = any edible plant part.
Fruit = Ovary of a flowering plant that carries the seeds.
I remember watching a YT video once about a legislative move of a US county to declare the number Pi to be exactly 3.
*State. It was Indiana.
* 3.2.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFNjA9LOPsg – How Pi was nearly changed to 3.2 - Numberphile
And we laughed when some pope declared the capybara is a fish
When… what? 😂
Capybara are fish, so are bees, because fish don’t actually exist.
The levels of validity may vary, but everything I said there is true in one form or another.
That only creates more questions 😅
I wonder if in other romance languages is the same, in Spanish and Catalan the two definitions are distinguished by being masculine or feminine. Fruto/fruit being masculine is the botanical fruit and fruta/fruita is the culinary fruit.
How is it in other romance languages?
Almost, but not quite. Fruto and fruta are not two genders of the same word, but two different words, with different sources words (fruto fructus and fruta fructa)
Meanings are very similar, so there’s a lot of mixup.
You’re completely right, they are two different words. For me that distinction was so clear that I never considered that what I wrote could be interpreted as two genders of the same word, that would make no sense.
I didn’t know the origins though, cool.
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Is there even a botanical definition of vegetables?
No. What is or isn’t a vegetable is determined entirely by whether we collectively consider any given plant or plant part a food item.
A pdf to clear it up, and confuse you more… maybe. https://wpcdn.web.wsu.edu/wp-extension/uploads/sites/2073/2020/04/Is-it-a-Fruit-or-a-Vegetable.pdf
That just defines fruit. Vegetable has no formal definition, and in practice is defined basically as “parts of plants we eat that aren’t considered fruits or nuts.”
