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it’s a bad argument, but the people claiming that Tylenol causes autism aren’t using logic to make their claim either.
The logic of the ‘meme’ is just bad. Something being identified before something else does not mean the second thing cannot create the first.
Cancer existed before cigarettes, yet cigarettes still cause cancer. Using this ‘meme’s’ logic, “anyone trying to tell you that cigarettes cause cancers is entirely full of crap”.
Not to defend RFK, but this argument is dumb.
People from everywhere it doesn’t natively grow developed cancer long before they had access to tobacco. That doesn’t prove tobacco use doesn’t cause cancer, it just means it isn’t the only potential cause.
That’s because cancer is a category of diseases, not a single one. Specific types of cancer that are caused by smoking are caused by smoking (there is afaik 12 of those, and some are associated with prolonged inhalation of any smoke, and some are only tabaco-related, but it doesn’t matter)
Are there any cancers that were found to be “caused by smoking” before 2003?
Of those, are there any that have subsequently also been found to be “caused by” vaping (such as the tobacco-related ones)?
If so, then it means vaping is indeed a cause (as opposed to the singular cause) of those cancers even though they were around before vaping was invented (in 2003).
That’s why this meme is bad.
The point is, the claim is that Tylenol is “linked to” autism.
This post is rebutting the claim that Tylenol “causes” autism.
Thats a classic straw man argument.
No, the post is claiming that because Tylenol was discovered after autism, it can’t be a cause of it. That’s flawed logic: it’s true that autism must also have some other cause, but it’s very possible in principle for things to have multiple causes, so the timeline argument proves nothing.
That’s not to say that Dipshit McBrainworm’s claim has any sort of merit whatsoever, mind you. It’s just that this argument is defective.
Also I’m pretty sure paracetamol has been around for about 150 years or more.
Also dumb because it wasn’t until 1943 that we had the first diagnosis of autism. OP is just making shit up.
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2817406
Findings In this population-based study, models without sibling controls identified marginally increased risks of autism and attention-deficit/hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) associated with acetaminophen use during pregnancy. However, analyses of matched full sibling pairs found no evidence of increased risk of autism (hazard ratio, 0.98), ADHD (hazard ratio, 0.98), or intellectual disability (hazard ratio, 1.01) associated with acetaminophen use.
Paracetamol, what you lot call acetaminophen, was first synthesized in 1877(or maybe much earlier in 1852). It wasnt widely used until the 1950s. Tylenol is a brand name that means fuck all to any conversation.
It means a lot to the company that owns the Tylenol brand. People would be fools not to try suing.
No, you see he said “asseattomanefin” first. So, its totally fine…
Hang on, I’ve got Assetto Corsa’s lawyers on the phone…
There’s no time or resources in the world to debunk all the bullshit this people generate. Every day, all the time…
“Firehose of falsehoods” is the term, i believe.
Just because something already exists, doesn’t mean it can’t be also caused by something else. Like canser. It already exists. But smoking can cause it too.
Next to that, it’s paracetamol. It predates the discovery/naming of autism. It’s already proven not to be the cause by other studies. Of course these studies could have been wrong, but I highly doubt that.
So this statement is incorrect. Doesn’t change the fact that I don’t believe a word of either Trump or RFK. I still believe science and I still don’t believe pseudoscience.
There’s proof it’s NOT caused by paracetamol?
That’s not modern science works. The “modern” scientific method (as in post-medieval) requires you to have a positive hypothesis that you can test (as in disprove). Starting with a negative statement doesn’t work in this system. Maybe here we are witnessing the birth of a new scientific system or this administration is so backwards that they rewinding all the way to pre-Galilean times.
See the other comments. Someone linked to the studies stating there was no link found.
Finding no link isn’t proof that no link exists. Only that none has been found. It’s evidence, not proof.
You actually believe their bullshit 😂 fucken sheep
Looks like those elite bastards are going to make some good old creaky stock market money off of their Tylenol lies.
Mr Brainworms
Tylenol is just a paracetamol brand name in the US. TIL
Paracetamol, acetaminophen, and Tylenol are all shortened names of N-acetyl-para-aminophenol, putting together different bits of the chemical name.
I was kinda shocked when I learnt this. Like finding out that Digestive biscuits were called Graham crackers.
Their origin is a pretty interesting read too.
Neben Acetylsalicylsäure, Ibuprofen oder Diclofenac ist Paracetamol einer der häufigsten Wirkstoffe in Präparaten, die gegen Fieber und Schmerzen eingesetzt werden. Paracetamol wirkt im Gegensatz zu diesen nicht entzündungshemmend.
Ah.
Yep it’s just Paracetamol (aka Acetaminophen depending on your locality). Always buy the generic, it’s the same shit in a less flashy box.
puts on logic glasses
Oh look, another brilliant mind discovered that autism was identified before Tylenol existed, so obviously Tylenol can’t cause autism. That’s like saying cancer existed before radiation therapy, therefore radiation can’t cause cancer. Peak necessity/sufficiency confusion right here - apparently conditions can only have one cause and medical recognition equals temporal origin.
But hey, let’s ignore that Swedish study of 2.5 million kids that found zero causal link when they actually controlled for confounding variables using sibling comparisons. Or those other high-quality studies that show the association completely disappears once you account for genetics and family environment. Who needs actual science when you have timeline gotchas?
Meanwhile pregnant women might avoid the safest pain reliever available because some politician decided to manufacture outrage for political points. But at least someone gets to feel intellectually superior about their logical fallacy meme.
🐱
You’re not wrong. But my guess is that “autism predates Tylenol” is probably gonna convince more people than “large controlled study done by the Swiss”. People are generally really ignorant
How on earth is that a thing? Do Americans just read the first two letters of a name and then give up?
I mean, as an Austrian I get the confusion between Austria and AustrALia (emphasis added so that Americans can also see it), but SwEDEN vs SwISS is just wild.
You Australians are so like the Austrians though. /s
G’day mate. Put another shrimp on the barbie
Am I doing this right?
Paracetamol predates autism, the meme is wrong. It refers to a random brand, not the substance
Hmm, i don’t like your tone, but you are correct. ASD has a heritability greater than 80% which is higher than blood pressure and the same as human height. It’s a genetic disorder.
Also, when was it necessary to differentiate ASD from schizophrenia? The age of onset of schizophrenia is around 18-21 and autism is present practically from birth (apparent 1-3 years). I think OP is wrongly interpreting the Kraepelinian dichotomy which is about bipolar disorder and schizophrenia.
@[email protected] is totally right. The meme is based on a wrong premise.
It claims that Autism was a known thing in 1911 (true), and that Tylenol was created in 1955 (misleading since the active ingredient, Paracetamol was created in 1878 and was in wide use before the brand Tylenol was created). Then it implies that the argument is that Tylenol is the only cause of Autism and then poses that as a contradiction.
Logically, that’s like claiming that some People died in 1700, and that the Ford Model T was only created in 1908 and then claiming that thus it’s nonsense that cars can kill people.
On the one hand it ignores that the active ingredient of the medication was in use far earlier than that one random brand showing up, and on the other hand it claims that the argument with Tylenol and Autism is that every single case of Autism happens due to Tylenol, which pretty much nobody is claiming.
So the meme is just wrong on many levels.
So instead of making up and disproving a lie, why not use actual science? There’s overwhelming scientific evidence that Paracetamol has no effect on Autism.
One might say that this doesn’t really sway those who choose to ignore science in favour of their own gut feelings, but on the other hand, does a fallacious lie sway them?
I think we can agree the meme is terrible and misleading.
I guess we can.
Well, the OP’s argument becomes nil when it’s based on such a basic fallacy, I mean c’mon. Temporal precedence ≠ causal impossibility.
And since autism-as-symptom existed in 1911 but autism-as-disorder wasn’t differentiated until later, the meme’s temporal logic becomes even more meaningless. lol
🐱🐱🐱🐱
deleted by creator
The statements of the meme are in mathematical form
A≠B B≠C
Therfore A≠C
which is not necessarily true and what @meowmeowbeanz is referring too.
deleted by creator
This reads like a grok reply lol
Autism was differentiated from Schizophrenia?
Yes even though they have entirely different traits people are stupid and they used the term schizophrenia as a catch all for anything that was seen as “abnormal”.
Nowadays it’s a little better, not as much as one might think, autism is the bucket term now, but I’ll try to give some better definitions.
Autism is a condition in which people lack in the more normal modes of thinking, and also social skills. Autists tend to have a few symptoms.
-Great difficulty in socializing
-High levels of sensitivity and high levels of neuroticism. (Don’t like being touched, don’t like their things being touched to a very high degree)
-A lack of common sense
-Often they fixate on a specific thing or set of things they really like, while they lack in general skills.
-They in some cases have difficulty understanding what people mean when they say stuff in social contexts, and often can understand specific things really well.
Schizophrenia
-They often have trouble staying awake fully in every part of their brain, leading to hallucinations in waking life.
-They often cannot understand allegory or metaphor really well, (they believe figures of speech to be literal) they can only understand something like religion as literal, not metaphorical.
-Schizophrenia tends to be a degenerative brain disease, where most people develop it between 29-35, and it usually worsens over life and their intelligence tends to drop faster than most adults.
-Schizophrenics tend to be antisocial, but not really by preference as much as autists. Which is one of the main differences. Schizophrenia is a degenerative brain disease where autism isn’t really degenerative or anything and autists tend to be much more antisocial but not paranoid and stuff.
-Schizophrenics tend to have extreme paranoia, and also they see patterns where there are none.
Schizophrenia is definitely the worst, and autism isn’t really bad in many cases. People can have a perfectly healthy and happy life with autism but schizophrenia is extremely destructive to people.
Both of these have almost no single known cause. Schizophrenia is thought to be highly genetic but a combination of many genes. Autism is less understood.
The first people who did a nature vs nurture study on schizophrenia discovered a new condition, that many of the family members of schizophrenia had, called schizotypal syndrome many of these people, although nearly perfectly healthy, tended to be weird, and also a bit antisocial. They had a great deal of superstition and fixations. They often were just weird though. Their house would smell weird. They would have odd colors. Things like this. It is thought that this is a precursor to schizophrenia. In cases where people just have schizotypal syndrome, this can be thought of as a case where diversity usually wins out in evolutionary terms. A diverse set of mental creatures is nearly always going to win over a very homogenous group of mental creatures, yet sometimes too many of these phenotypes end up in one child, and the neurodegenerativness might come from lifestyles factors associated with highly schizotypal living. (Taking lots of medicine, believing everything they hear on TV, like medication is safe to take when pregnant) Which most people would just understand as incorrect. Bad diet from poverty due to being weird. Having too many germs and mold in their house because they are scared of burglars so they are afraid to open the windows. Things like this.
Schizophrenia tends to still be a bit of a bucket term, and autism as well, but these are far better defined these days. The reason they are most likely on the rise is because of less real food, with nutrients, more poverty, and highly stressful modern lifestyles, and also many people spend a lot of time around manmade and synthetic materials in childhood vs spending time in nature, which can help the immune system learn to function correctly. Most germs in nature aren’t very dangerous to humans, because they haven’t evolved specific traits to infect humans. So your immune system has a strong advantage over these germs.
So if you don’t want your kids to develop these conditions, air your house out sometimes, let them play in nature, feed them high quality food, and keep their stress low, and make sure they have enough free time so that they can sleep at night. Also don’t take medication while you are pregnant unless you absolutely have too. People should know this without someone telling them this. Don’t take antibiotics unless you have a specific germ infection where it’s worth the tradeoff.
The immune system also likely plays a role in these conditions. Having a healthy immune system isn’t just about defense against pathogens, but also your own epigenetic regulation. Having a weak or overly reactive immune system will lead to autism like symptoms or schizophrenia type symptoms if your immune system. Neurons have very complex and idiosyncratic protein structures and if your immune system isn’t functioning correctly, your brain will get full of trash or overly washed out by your immune system.since it cannot manage your brain proteins correctly. So get an outside dog they help keep healthy germs so long as they are healthy, spend time in nature, eat wild fruit. Dont spend every hour of your life inside or around humans and all their germs. Try to practice germ hygiene around humans, don’t fear nature’s germs. They can’t really hurt you if your immune system is working correctly, where humans spread all kinds of human specific pathogens that can sometimes infect you even if your immune system is healthy, although this is harder, because your immune system knows your own germs and evolves your germs to be specific to your body.
Explain how autism was differentiated from schizophrenia in 1911, but the first autism diagnosis wasn’t until 1943.
-A lack of common sense
This one bothers me. How is “common sense” defined for this criteria?
Basic simple cognitive tasks. Keep in mind that isn’t an official medical definition, just my own. It’s like awareness in the moment, among other things.
One example might be like, not asking certain questions, like asking a woman how much she weighs or a trans person about their genitals. Another example might just be basic tasks like driving without blocking traffic. Another example might be, not being a creep to a girl that you like. (Not following her around and falling in love when she doesn’t even know you) Another example might be not looking at the sun and not realizing the black spots in your eyes are actually damage. Another example, thinking it’s okay to take medicine when you are pregnant that isn’t absolutely necesarey and also advised by a doctor. Another example might be not eating around people with bad hygiene. So many countless examples. It in some contexts refers to your ability to think through simple situations where the answer should be obvious, but can also just refer to your awareness of simple and obvious things.
Once again this isn’t a medical definition, I know people on the internet get confused a great deal these days, but this is just my own definition.
Schizophrenics lack this sense to a large extent, because many diagnosed schizophrenics couldn’t think their way out of a paper bag, autistic people lack it to varying degrees for different reasons, usually not a degenerated brain. Autism can refer to many different things from lack of mental function to just very abnormal mental function, which isn’t always necessarily a negative if they can function well in life. Autism is only really an issue when it makes people have a hard time functioning like a normal human being, (getting a job, making friends, finding loving relationships, taking care of themselves, etc) many autistic people are extremely intelligent in certain fields that they like. They often have an incredible ability to focus beyond normal humans. Schizophrenia is much different. A schizophrenic probably cannot focus on anything. Their minds are full of intrusive and paranoid thoughts and they often cannot easily distinguish reality from their thoughts.
Listen I know the RFK claim is nonsense but that doesn’t excuse faulty logic. This is like saying cancer existed before X so X can’t be a carcinogen.
There are many countries worldwide that use a fraction of this drug compared to the US. Americans eat them like candy. Regardless, there is no difference in incidence of autism.
Tylenol is a brand. Acetominophen was created in 1878 (or 1852, depending on who you ask).
e: That doesn’t make RFKJr not wrong and insane, in case it needed saying.
Over half of Americans read at a 6th-grade level or lower and our President speaks at a 4th-grade level. How many you suppose know Tylenol and acetaminophen are the same thing?
It’s on the box.
Look at the elitist over here that knows how to read : P
I never learned and you can’t make me.
Just wait till they hear what big pharma is doing with paracetamol
I could totally see acetaminophen makers rebranding with a “new” paracetamol
lol my guess is like 70% of people in the us don’t know what acetaminophen or paracetamol are, so Tylenol could just come out with Lonelyt Extra Stength and bam, sales
Wasn’t ibuprofen what they were blaming? Or did they switch to acetaminophen?
Edit: just saw the Trump clip, now it’s acetaminophen’s fault, lmao. Funny how it’s something that’s actually safe to take for pain during pregnancy, because of course they can never pass up a chance at making women suffer
I only ever saw Tylenol.
Not to mention, this doesnt prove tylenol doesnt cause cancer, it just proves that tylenol isnt the only cause of cancer.
Obv it doesnt, but this argument is just bad.
you fucked the argument lol
Do you think RFK knows this?
He is absolutely insane
I only buy generic brand medications, so my kids are at risk of generic brand autism. Is this going to be a signifier of a low income upbringing when they reach adulthood?
Should I switch to name brand Tylenol for their future?
Yes, like Lego bricks Vs generic ones, the autism from those has higher fault tolerances
yeah your children are gonna get that non-specific autistic enterocolitis that wakefield warned about, sorry
