Common theme with East Asia is the “population will shrink until society collapses”

Also I see this with the UK and Europe too, sometimes Canada. Always stuff like “something bad is gonna happen” with an image of stuff burning, as implying civil war because of reasons(?) 🤔

Seems kinda clickbaity

I see this on Youtube, Reddit, news, the internet in general.

  • farmgineer@nord.pub
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    3 days ago

    I mean, we’re in deep shit in Japan in a number of ways.

    More xenophobic people and anti-foreigner policies, higher costs of status renewal (they claimed to bring in line with Germany and other countries despite the fact that our salaries are way lower), etc. are driving foreigners away. Foreigners are taking jobs no one else is (it’s generally an immigration requirement for a work visa is that you can’t take a job a Japanese could do, roughly). Bus drivers, elder carers, hospital workers, etc. Rather than look at the actual issues and do something about it (voter participation, particularly among the young, is abysmal), they just keep voting LDP that keeps enriching the rich and powerful and not doing much to actually help.

    There are all kinds of systemic issues around working conditions, gender roles, and other things that hold families back. Almost everyone moves to Tokyo or another big city for university and never comes back because the only jobs outside are farming, fishing, forestry, and factories, more or less. People like me who do move to be a part of a small community have their companies say “oopsie, we didn’t mean work from anywhere; you have to be in the Tokyo office now” which is basically impossible (my union is fighting the company who retained a lawfirm, so who knows where this goes). There’s no stability outside of the city. This is driving up prices on a number of things. Childcare is also over-burdened in those areas so one parent often has to quit, at least for a while, if they want to start a family. This only gets worse (whereas where I live, they pay people to move here and we have free/subsidized daycare for kids with open slots).

    There’s still more that I could write about. Inflation is rampant and wages don’t keep up. Salaries were long flat, but so were prices until corona followed by Russia’s invasion. I don’t have much hope. It’s gotten me (over a decade here, permanent resident, etc.) thinking it’s time to go, which is not a statement I thought I would say; I had planned to retire and spend the rest of my life here. Now, I’m trying to get a job somewhere like Norway where I can do a silly thing like at least vote in local elections after 3 years, unlike Japan which is never in most places and the xenophobes are trying to remove it in the few places it does exist (despite us paying the same taxes, pension, and everything else).

    ttl;dr - current gov keeps making rich richer, quality of life is generally falling, and something’s going to give eventually be it the political system, the economy, etc. since line can’t always go up and inequality breeds contempt.

  • Malica@lemmy.zip
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    2 days ago

    Regarding Japan, I’ve seen many worrying investigations by YouTubers. Countless empty towns. Some people are moving back, but not enough.

  • disregardable@lemmy.zip
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    3 days ago

    Yes, it’s called demography. The point of calculating predictions is so we can react to them now. For example, in the 1960s, we predicted population growth would outpace our ability to produce enough food, and massive amounts of people would starve to death. In response, societies invested millions of dollars into agricultural development to be able to grow food more efficiently. By responding to the issue, we avoided having it. The claim wasn’t “wrong”, it did what it was supposed to do.

    • FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca
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      3 days ago

      I like to use Y2K as an example of this phenomona. It’s a common misconception that people were panicked over something that was never going to happen. In reality, programmers put loads of time and effort into fixing the problem.

      Sadly, when a crisis is averted, people think it was never going to happen. Now, if the Untied States manages not to continue its descent into fascism, people will say that those who predicted it were just fearmongering. In reality, people seeing the fascism rising led to people working against it.

  • 🇨🇦GreenBeard🇨🇦@lemmy.ca
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    3 days ago

    There are real problems in Japan and South Korea, but the headlines are clickbait. Everything is exaggerated for engagement. There’s truth there but you have to dismiss about 2/3rds of the sensationalism to get a good feel for how serious the problem actually is. The same goes for Europe and North America.

  • yesman@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    The population of Earth has doubled in my lifetime. Population growth is only slowing if you exclude brown people and focus on countries that 1)are wealthy and 2) don’t allow immigration. These ‘demographic bombs’ are the result of jingoism, immigration controls, and racism; they are entirely artificial.

    Slow population growth is a crisis for capitalism not humanity. This is because capitalism requires infinite growth and the biggest engine that sustains that delusion is population growth. Just look who is freaking out about it.

    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works
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      3 days ago

      Population growth is only slowing if you exclude brown people

      On the contrary, accounting for time lag, there is reason to believe we have already fallen below replacement rate on a global scale.

      Slow population growth is a crisis for capitalism not humanity

      Capitalism collapsing without any transition plan in place would be disastrous for humanity. Capitalism bad, but so far it’s worked out better than everything else we’ve tried (Scandinavia et al is still capitalism, just with a layer of socialism on top).

      Just look who is freaking out about it.

      Practically every demographic scientist on the planet.

    • jaycifer@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      What you’re partially describing is the demographic transition model, which splits population growth into five stages. The first few involve birth rates remaining high as a country’s development decreases death rates leading to the birth rate decreasing to match the low death rate. The last stage appears to be a little more uncertain than the last time I read up on it, at that time the standard expectation was that birth rates fall below the death rate in highly developed countries leading to a population decrease.

      The problem I have with your thinking on the matter is your focus on “brown people” and the use of immigration to keep population growth. Immigration is just a stopgap solution for population decline because it relies on the existence of other, less developed countries for people to immigrate from. But those less developed countries (I assume the brown people you’re talking about) are also stepping through the stages of the demographic transition model as they become more developed, meaning eventually when the whole world is developed the overall population will peak and then decline. At that point, immigration-reliant countries like the US will have the same problems as anti-immigrant countries are starting to run into now. So the problem itself of population decline is not artificial, different developed countries at the leading edge of the charts are just dealing with the natural trend in different (and sometimes racist) ways.

      It is a crisis for capitalism, but as long as humanity relies on systems based on an increase of the fundamental economic unit (the consumer), it is a crisis for humanity as well and we should worry about how to alter those systems. Places like South Korea and Japan are the first to have to deal with that shift, but the rest of the world should be paying attention to what does and doesn’t work for them because we’re next.

  • BarqsHasBite@lemmy.world
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    3 days ago

    Big clickbait. The “concern” is that without an increasing population then we can’t pay for the benefits of the older population, therefore anything that slows growth means doom, collapse, whatever. We really do have to get our fiscal house in order, but overall cough cough there is enough wealth to take care of our society.

  • Horsey@lemmy.world
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    1 day ago

    Any time you see a headline about population collapse, remember that the hidden complaint is that wages will rise when there are less people in the job market.

    So many business models are predicated on hiring low skilled, failed individuals to do menial labor for close to nothing in a job they can’t afford to quit.

    When there are more people who are highly educated, slop jobs disappear which is a good thing.

  • HubertManne@piefed.social
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    2 days ago

    Its so rediculous because there is tons of potential immigrants which they can bring in at any time. Im not sure about the other places but they can get babies real quick in the us if wealth disparity was no so logrithmic.

    • blackberry28@sh.itjust.works
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      2 days ago

      Yeah but that would mean the death of their cultures. Japan (and SK prolly as well) has a lot of complicated societal values, norms and culture that you can’t just learn as a foreigner, or at least that’s my impression. Opening the floodgates would make Japan cease to exist, as it would continue to exist only on paper. A country defines itself via culture, tradition and shared values. If those get lost because of immigration, then does this country really still exist?

      • HubertManne@piefed.social
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        2 days ago

        Given the culture philes that seem to learn every last little thing Im certain it can be learned. Likely global media is a bigger threat to their cultures. Its kinda a scarecrow type of argument. The current generations of all countries are way different than just a few generations ago.

      • KneeTitts@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Yeah but that would mean the death of their cultures. Japan (and SK prolly as well) has a lot of complicated societal values

        well if the other option is societal collapse… then suck it up

  • The Japan one I’ve only heard coming from people bitching about Lawson’s new one item bentos that make cheap American food look like fine French cuisine. “OMG the empire is collapsing because a konbini bento is making us look like we are all broke.”

  • AskewLord@piefed.social
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    2 days ago

    No.

    They are just going to entire a population and economic decline that plays out over decades.

    But clickbait headlines want to make this seem like magically in 2050 the population will halve, because drama.

  • threeonefour@piefed.ca
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    3 days ago

    Sudden large population changes can cause problems. Everyone seems to inherently understand the issue with rapid growth, but I often see people saying rapid decline is totally fine and sometimes even a good thing, actually.

    Every job suddenly being understaffed would be a challenge. Every piece of infrastructure suddenly being oversized creates inefficiencies. National pensions take money from workers and give it to the elderly, which only works if workers far outnumber the elderly. Some countries are headed to a 1:1 ratio and China is estimated to soon have 5 dependents for every 1 worker. Pension plans will go bankrupt.

    All of this will happen all at once, everywhere, in a few decades. I don’t think it’s going to create apocalyptic scenarios, but people were freaking out over gas prices being twice as expensive, imagine what they’re going to do when their pension payments stop.

    • CompactFlax@discuss.tchncs.de
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      2 days ago

      the global economy is built on massive amounts of debt which literally borrow from future growth in productivity to build today. If there isn’t more people to build stuff next year than this year, the whole thing falls apart.

      Economic collapse sounds good to an anti-capitalist but it doesn’t feed them or their family, it leads to mass starvation and disease.

    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works
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      3 days ago

      Yeah the number of people on Lemmy cheering on demographic collapse is insane. Things need to happen at a slow controlled pace, and it doesn’t look to be happening that way.

    • Obviouslywrong@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      It’s not a huge deal. It’s self balancing to a degree and it will be hard on pensions in a short term but will see drastically lower housing costs.